Who will win this battle?

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:25 am

I'm meeting someone this Sunday for my Sauron challenge. If he can kill Sauron I'm rewarding him $10. Do you think he can do it with the armies involved? Utilizing the One rulebook ruleset, there are a few house rules but nothing major or game changing

Scenario Objective: 1250 points game, KILL Sauron (with the One Ring) within the turn limit of 15 turns.

FORCES of GOOD (unknown wargears)
Gandalf the White
Legolas
Elrond
Galadhrim Warrior x9
Treebeard
Warrior of Rohan x14
Aragorn, King Elessar
Radagast the Brown

Forces of EVIL
Castellan of Dol Guldur x8 (no morgul blade)
The Dark Lord Sauron w/ One Ring
Ringwraith on foot x5 (minimal M/W/F)

MWL_Rambo · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:43 am

If your opponent can use his wizards effectively and you can't get them taken care of I think the list has a shot. However, 15 turns is not much to work with.

Good Luck

LordElrond · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:58 am

Good would win, but not kill Sauron in 15 turns probably. Keeping all his might, he has to roll four ones for his ring save to actually die, which he probably won't do.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:06 pm

Yeah I'm unsure about gauging turn limits, I was winging it. I may have to readjust my challenge after this game. I've set army lists for locals to challenge with turns depending on points fielded:

700-975pts = 10 turns
1000-2000pts = 15 turns
2050-3000pts = 20 turns
3500 = 25 turns

So depending how things turn out I may boost each by 5 turns to give my opponent more time.

As for those pesky wizards I'm facing, Sauron has a nasty Sap Will spell, mouwahhaha. I suppose the only way they can resist that one is with their Staff of Power, otherwise it makes no sense to still resist a spell that auto reduces your Will to zero.

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:05 am

I have to agree with those guys. Barring a catastrophic mistake by you it will be hard to manage in 15 turns.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:13 am

Question: Sauron is down to his last wound, and suffers multiple excessive wounds. Does he do a Ring test once or a Ring test for each wound struck? Someone told me before just only once, but I want to be sure about this. How does the gaming community handle this?

theavenger001 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:20 pm

Sacrilege83 wrote:

Question: Sauron is down to his last wound, and suffers multiple excessive wounds. Does he do a Ring test once or a Ring test for each wound struck? Someone told me before just only once, but I want to be sure about this. How does the gaming community handle this?

For every one. This is not a problem if you roll dice one at a time, as you are technically supposed to, as then you will never suffer multiple wounds at a time, only a wound, which is saved by the ring, or not, and then another wound, which is saved or not, etc.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:33 am

theavenger001 wrote:

Sacrilege83 wrote:

Question: Sauron is down to his last wound, and suffers multiple excessive wounds. Does he do a Ring test once or a Ring test for each wound struck? Someone told me before just only once, but I want to be sure about this. How does the gaming community handle this?

For every one. This is not a problem if you roll dice one at a time, as you are technically supposed to, as then you will never suffer multiple wounds at a time, only a wound, which is saved by the ring, or not, and then another wound, which is saved or not, etc.

Q: If Sauron has The One Ring and suffers more than one Wound that
would otherwise destroy him, how many rolls would he make for The One
Ring to sustain him on 1 Wound? (pg 17)
A: You only ever roll once, regardless of how many Wounds Sauron
has suffered.
From the FAQ.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:54 pm

Thank you Draugluin. Now that is cleared.

@theavenger001, not that it matters anymore but technically there should be no difference in rolling to wound one at a time or rolling them all together in the same combat.

theavenger001 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:52 pm

Sacrilege83 wrote:

Thank you Draugluin. Now that is cleared.

@theavenger001, not that it matters anymore but technically there should be no difference in rolling to wound one at a time or rolling them all together in the same combat.

It seems that I was wrong, though I think I did not explain myself well. What I was trying to say SD said well in another thread:

Quote:

You only roll for the ring when Sauron is removed. As he is on 1 wound, once one wound is suffered the ring activates as he is effectively removed. That is the downside to throwing lots of dice to wound at once.

Do it warrior at a time and each time you score a wound he will have to take the test.

Make sense?

As SD says, you should roll for each warrior separately, as Sauron needs to make a ring roll each time he loses his last wound, which could happen multiple times in the same fight.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:32 am

That way does make a lot more sense. Especially for archery. It seems like they just made it like that so that he would only ever have to make 1 Ring roll per phase, regardless, which is really weird now that I think about it.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:59 am

I could agree for 1 ring roll in combat phase unless a hero announces a Heroic combat starting a new second combat against Sauron. Shooting phase is more trivial. If he gets hit by a warmachine causing multiple wounds, for sure 1 ring roll, but multiple archers??? What a wishy washy rule that needs to be house ruled.

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

Sacrilege83 wrote:

I could agree for 1 ring roll in combat phase unless a hero announces a Heroic combat starting a new second combat against Sauron. Shooting phase is more trivial. If he gets hit by a warmachine causing multiple wounds, for sure 1 ring roll, but multiple archers??? What a wishy washy rule that needs to be house ruled.

like in 1st place all archers gonna wound a really top notch Defence value model anwyay lol

The thing about giving turns its kinda bad.... jsut let the game flow normally... normally game condition its till broken then roll 1,2 at the beginning to end the game....

Cause if your oponente plays to tie... he will just run away with his models wasting several turns for nothing. Thats a thing you never considered hey?

And you know since you prob play with it more... you just buckle up sauron behind a shieldwall of castellans and takes 10x harder than kill from an already very hard to kill model.

IF your oponent wanna try to get an hand to even try to challenge de dark lord he has to go White council or forget it the way it is.... or least a portion being part of the white council warband.

In this case a slightly upgradable Elrond for a free heroic strike every turn can be extremly handy.
Also Galadriel as she is the Spirit´s Bane on that form and magic nullifier helpnig your heroes.
If he wants to compete for that I would also recommend.
Taking Floi ... thats is how you shut down major evil special rules... like the castellans will as fate special rule....

If I was taking on you for Sauron´s Challenge I would take this.

White Council:
- Galadriel, Lady of Light
- Elrond, Lord of the West
- Radagast the Brown
- Gandalf the Grey
___
Tom Bombadil
Treebeard
Floi Stonehand
King´s Champion and Heralds
Rúmil with elven cloak

With this I might have a slight chance to get Sauron....

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:12 pm

He changed his army list a bit and is bringing King of the Dead hoping to 1 hit kill. Playing him today and upped the amount of turns.

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

the king of the dead 1 shoot? lol hes kinda bad with fight 4 and on a 2+ sauron ignore that stuff....

That could work to 1 shoot the castellans if he had Floi to shut down the will as fate rule though.... but otherwise its kinda folly to send the king jus tto 1 shoot Sauron...

1 thing every 1 learn about the dark lord is that there is no easy way to kill it, hes always to be taken on the long hard grind to kill it....

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:38 pm

Alright we played today and he updated his list:

Gandalf the White
Legolas
Elrond
Galadhrim Bows x10
Treebeard
Dwarf Warriors, Khazad Guard, & Vault Wardens (12 models)
King of the Dead (@Galanur Doesn't matter if he has F4, when enemy spams Immobilize)
Gimli
Radagast the Brown

In 20 turns Sauron was the only one left with 1 wound & 2 might out of 14 models versus 30 with only 10 kills. That was close, phew.

Short Summary:
- My army ran away for 3 turns to bunker up in a fortress that my opponent placed.

-His Legolas can't shoot worth a damn the entire game.
-Turn 5 he was able to charge, Blinding Light protected his troops from magic (?)
-Elrond's Nature's Wrath finally fell through and the enemy walked in on a whim with 3/4 of my force on the ground.
-In 6 turns my Wraiths and Castellans eliminated 9 dwarfs. On turn 7 my force was broken. Elven shots killed 2 and heroes were decimating me.
-By turn 10 my last two warriors deserted and Sauron was all alone. By turn 12 Sauron was down to his last wound thanks to being trapped and being immobilized. My opponent didn't properly make use of the King of the Dead.
- Sauron only killed one dwarf! The rest of the time he spent being immobilized or losing fights and rolling bad.
-In the end the One Ring and a point of Might saved him, much to my opponent's chagrin and outrage.

-$10 saved, though he won.

Okay there were plenty of questionable things in this game:

-We treated Magical Powers as shooting in the Blinding Light rules at the beginning of the game. Bad idea because I couldn't cast a single spell without rolling a 6.

-We spent 10 minutes arguing while I was choking on a watermelon about the amount of strikes allocated to a grounded (trapped) fighter and his mate who was standing. My argument was you get strike bonuses only towards the trapped fighter. He argued he gets to allocate all extra attacks anywhere he wants. Going to official rules questions for this one.

-He didn't agree with Might being used on Ring rolls, as Ring rolls shouldn't be considered as Fate. And the whole multiple wounds from multiple warriors. Can't say I blame him. But we did play 1 Ring roll save per phase.

The game was kind of fun but also frustrating for both of us. I had a 450 points model that was basically a sitting duck and he couldn't kill it.

theavenger001 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:10 am

Double strikes for models on the ground only go against that model. If model A has two attacks, he can attack the model on the ground and get 4 strikes, or he can attack someone else who is not on the ground, and get 2 strikes.

IIRC blinding light does not effect spells, but I don't have the rules in front of me.

I think the 1 ring roll per phase is the right way as the rules are written, though it does seem a bit cheap...

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:05 am

theavenger001 wrote:

Double strikes for models on the ground only go against that model. If model A has two attacks, he can attack the model on the ground and get 4 strikes, or he can attack someone else who is not on the ground, and get 2 strikes.

IIRC blinding light does not effect spells, but I don't have the rules in front of me.

I think the 1 ring roll per phase is the right way as the rules are written, though it does seem a bit cheap...

Thank you Avenger, and you're right, The One Ring is cheap!!! That's the reason why I front money for people to take my challenge! :rofl:

But he's a 450 point model, that ain't cheap, and can be wounded quickly when trapped against Heroes and Monsters and Villains.

The immobilize and King of the Dead can be a very deadly combination for Sauron, as well as Treebeard needing only 5's.

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

cast blinding light affects 1 spell in particular, the black dark as its a missile....

About the Ring, everytime he is removed as a casualty, he can roll a dice. On a roll of a 2 or more the power of the Ring substain him and he is left on the table with one wound remaining.

I dunno whats the complication on this rule that need FaQ. The rules specifically says: everytime he is removed as a casualty. Thing is how it works out if he eats up 10 wounds... I would say just roll a dice on a 2+ he stays alive and remain wounds are discarted. Cause simply a model can´t take a wound out of 10, die, ressurect, die again, ressurect lol (this aint fate points, so 1 wound is needed to get him kiled, the remain will have no effect on him, cause wound s are dealt all i na row) look at any other model if that thing only have 1 wound and takes up 5 wounds, its overkill but that wound was enough to been dealt with and hes dead... the remain 4 are discarted as they aint required..
The one ring its an wargear effect, not fate points...

And btw its not one per phase, is at least a few more. Cause:
- magic phase /multiple users can do diferent wounds, so per user that wounds you on magic you roll a dice.
- shooting phase/same as above
- combat phase (at least twice if the oponent call heroic combats)

if its cheap? yea it is... thats why hes a Dark lord for a good reason, got no fault people been using the rule wrong lol

On youre review Im quite surprised how he forgot to Rend brutal power attack on Sauron.... what diference does it make? The Dark Lord got S8 rather than D10. it does makes a Huge diference....

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

Galanur wrote:

cast blinding light affects 1 spell in particular, the black dark as its a missile...

It doesn't and it isn't. Black dart is a spell, and requires no To Hit roll of any kind (the rules even specifically say so). Blinding Light has no effect whatsoever on magic, nor do I see how it would.

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