I was just thinking that during the Fall of the Necromancer section of the final movie we may see some high elves or at least Elrond as well as Galadriel as PJ makes the split between High elves/Galadhrim mush less defined than that of the Mirkwood elves. Whilst there is obviously a good chance this won't happen (what with it being wild speculation) it got me thinking about what models GW could release for the high elf army and what I'd want them to release so I thought I'd ask what you guys wanted to see not in terms of models per say but rules. By this I mean people wanted dwarves to have spears and the place guard and ranger don't reinvent the Mirkwood list but they do give it more tactical options etc.

As an example here's what I hope an update to the high elves would include

1) A two attack basic unit, seems over powered but would give them some more tactical options and would be to expensive to make an entire army out of.

2) Blending the Rivendell Knights into the existing list not just for the obvious reason but also that it give the main list two new heroes to play with (and means you might not have to convert Lindir into a mounted model)

3) Some unit/rules change on archery, the high elf list is old and was written pre the 'everyone gets a special rule' drive of the last few years meaning an army that was one of the best at shooting is now much more mediocre. I was thinking a high elf ranger style profile (like the Mirkwood one) but it instead removes the move and shoot penalty

4) PIKES, that is all

So what would you like to see added to the army lists that will be involved in final film? Does Laketown need some elites (maybe connected to their archery), named captains or cavalry or would you prefer them to stay cheap and cheerful but weak as they are now?

Do the dwarfs need some extra something to make the more rounded, fun or unique

Finally do you want the much maligned boar riders from a gaming perspective not from a lore perspective (please leave this out we all know it's stupid) it would give the Erebor army one fast moving, super elite but probably very expensive unit which would give them more tactical options and make them more unique.

Feel free to speculate wildly this is not meant to be a list things that will happen but rather things you thing would improve the game

I think a 2 attack base High Elf has to happen if they appear in the last film, they are the most superior warriors in middle earth yet have pretty mediocre stat lines. If 2 attacks is not done then a strength or defence bonus must occur.

A pike rule similar to the Easterlings would be nice. As well as some bonus to shooting like 50% limit or no move penalty.

The Knights may be in a separate list at the mean time because gamesworkshop know about the high elves in the last film and the high elves will be added to that list?

I wouldnt be surprised if lake-town got an 'army' to work in tandem with the guard. Maybe some more heavily armoured or ranger variants.

Bring on the PIGS! and on that note, lets have an ELK wood elf cavalry with Thranduil leading it!

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The High Elves are split due to licensing purposes, nothing more.

I don't want a 2 attack HE unit or pikes for them. Because then they trump all the other elf factions in every way, I like the fact that each has its own strengths over the other 2.

I don't want boar riders, i BFME2's Battle-Wagons so the Dwarves can have some form of cavalry as they currently have none (beyond Thorin's company)

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I play high elves all the time and the only thing they really struggle against is bezerkers and 2A models and skirmishing cav (shoot retreat, shoot, retreat, shoot, retreat, shoot, etc.) but then they are better at withstanding this than most armies as d5 means 6s to kill from s2 bows and any return fire usually spatters the enemy with blood ( unless the dice gods are against you). I don't really think they need any new profiles, but new poses would be very nice.

I will field the evil side of the coin I suppose. I think with many of us getting our eagles together, good will have air superiority and be able to take field advantage, capture objectives and the like. So I am looking forward to giant bats rumor stat wise (not sure how they will look). I am curious if either eagles or bats will end up with passengers (I do remember the old passenger rules that people used to drag and drop heroes into strategic spots). either way I am anxious to see what comes about, both in this years armies gaining more eagles in forces and what happens with the new film if it counters this. Note that the plastic eagles assemble with a separate back piece, and so making a Gandalf or radaghast riding an eagle would be fairly easy for GW to tool into the sprue for these.

I think warg armies are weak only in the D aspect and would like to see if rumors hold about armor or barded wargs. I am not sure how they would fare against elk cav (see legions of everbright reavers if you want those now to convert an army). I don't want to see any spiders ridden by goblins.. but I have a feeling that some thousand angry and leaderless Goblin Towners will be seen on the field in some form and already we have at least one dwarf on a wild pig.. so who knows what PJ has cracked his scull against this time. In any rate I don't plan to see a Tolkien inspired anything, but do expect to see high end fantasy battles and all of these are possible.

I would like to see a return of twilight wraiths, we saw one in the first hobbit film. I would like to see all 9 with a very lesser form/statline and call them anything (maybe use the Duskwraith profile) to be able to field some lesser magical beings that have some tie to middle earth.

oh..and what ever is spawning all of those giant spiders... the queen, if she could come out to play it would be appreciated.

AS for the good speculation, if 2A elves were made, it could work, they are scary now, but it would lessen the numbers even more and I think horde armies would balance out still vrs them. So that would not be bad. If you watch AUJ and when Lindur is coming down the stairs to greet Gandalf he passes between two HE guards wearing what looks like fur or feathered cloaks (some textured material) and they are not the same as the ones from TLA, so PJ could use them and so could GW to bring a very close but still different HE warrior into our collections and armies.

Dwarves I think have so many options it is crazy and we know we will see iron hill dwarves. So I will wait to see what they bring to all of this. I miss the scenic models (barrels out of bonds not included) and wish they made thorins co in the laketown garb with a armor stat (they use to do this stuff for the old films) or had the spiders come with wrapped up versions of dwarves like Shelob had Frodo and barrow whites had the 4 hobbits, I know statwise it means nothing but it would have been cool to see that approach to this still take place.

I do want to see a Mirkwood warrior stat, I don't think the war can be fought with palace guard and rangers. We all saw the army on the hil in AUJ so what is up GW, where are my basic troops. We could forgive the slight miff on the points for the guards if they had some decent troops to fill the force with.

Laketown I still am unsure about. Right now they feel like weak villains to me. They may have aided Thorins company via a greedy and power struggling Master, but the treatment of Bard (we know to be a hero) and how they will fare against the dragon, leaves me wanting to see something better from that. I don't know if Dale troops fill the need, but something like that is what is needed here. A base troop, as well as decent archers to represent the long bows of dale, but how they will be dressed is up to PJ. I don't know if Bard saved any of the smuggle money he got so he can outfit a small force with something other than trench coats, let us hope so.

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1) I know the licencing is irritating, but if high elves are in the hobbit hopefully they can be combined, this was never really an issue for me as my group combines them

2) I disagree the others have many more tactical options and choices, high elves are good at what they do but they can only do one thing and I don't believe your right the new units would be expensive so you wouldn't use them often/or exclusively but they'd just give you options e.g the Palace guard don't change how a wood elf army plays but they give you the option to give Thranduil a nice bodyguard if you so choose

3) Game wise I'd love dwarf chariots (as that basically what the battle wagon is) it would make them so much more unique



1) It would just make them a better army list, high elves are the elite of the elite in middle earth but for some reason the only get simple foot soliders (and now Knights) I wont something different and a 2A model fits lore wise and doesn't step on the toes of the other elf lists

2) I love those two rules, the list got a little left out of the new what I call 'army rules' like Harad and the Wood Elves. Their niether overpowered or un-thematic

3) Yeah I really want to see what they do with that list as is they are already a great fluff list (with Bard and the Master) and give all good armies a great cheap simple as you can get 'standard man profile' to use I've used them myself with my high elves to give the army some numbers/cannon fodder but as a lore friendly village militia that Glorfy and Gildor are helping defend



I agree on both points new poses would be lovely and they don't need new profiles but they would be nice, I play all three elf armies (cue the username) and I find they lack variety but they don't NEED NEED new units in that sense

1-High Elf King's Guard: 15 pts each

F: 6/3+ S: 3 D: 6 A: 2 W: 1 C: 6

Wargear: Heavy Armor, Elven Blade
Options:
Shield-1 pt
Spear-1 pt
Special Rule: Woodland Creature
Kings Guard: Pick a hero on the field. As long as that hero is alive the King's Guard passes all courage tests.

Idk...does that seem right? Nothing very special, but a D 6 two attack fight six model is tough. I modeled it off the Guard of the Galad court profile. 3 more points, a new special rule, higher defense and extra attack.

3-High Elf Scout: 11
F: 5/2+ S: 3 D: 3 A: 1 W: 1 C: 5

Wargear: Light Armor, and Elven Dagger
Options:
Elf Bow-2 pts
Spear-1 pt
Special Rule:
Woodland Creature
Aim of the Kingdom-High Elf Scouts have a 50% bow limit
High Elf Spear- You may shield with the spear just as a wood elf could

Not saying theyre perfect profiles points wise, but theres an idea....

2-I think they just need to add different heros or re do their profile so you have more heros mounted who could lead them.

4-Not so fond of this idea....the elves fight value is already so high they win a lot of roll offs.....do they need up to 4 attacks with a banner and pikes???

5-NO. Terrible, 5-6 point models from this army list are already 5 dollars each....I cant imagine how much their elites are, or what they would be for that matter....very few people use laketown anyway.

6-Yes of course. A re done Dain profile and some interesting rules for his army in the next movie should be done. And yes boar riders.....

Something like the Mahud Camels:

Dwarven Boar Rider: 16 pts
F:4 S:3 D:6 A:1 W:1 C:4

Wargear: Dwarven Armor, Axe
Options:
Dwarven War Spear-1 pt
Shield-1 pt
Special Rule:
War Boar- When you charge into base contact with one or more enemy models, that model automatically takes a strength 4 hit.

War Board:
F:0 S:4 D:4 A:0 W:1 C:2


And maybe this:

Dain's Royal Guard: Pts-15
F:4 S:4 D:7 A:2 W:1 C:4

Wargear: Dwarven Armor, Axe, Shield
Options:
Two Handed Axe-1 pt
Special Rule:
When outnumbered 2 or more to 1 in combat, Dain's Royal Guard may re roll 1 dice to wound if he wins the fight.

Dain Ironfoot, New King Under the Mountain: Pts-140
F:7 S:4 D:9 A:3 W:3 C:7 // M:3 W:3 F:3
Wargear: Heavy Mithril Armor, Barazantathul
Special Rule:
Dains Honor- in the face of despair Dain is ever unwielding. His Stand Fast Rules is 12", and while Dain is alive, Dain's Royal Guard pass all Courage tests.
The New King-If Thorin is in your army, and is slain, all Dwarves in your army re roll failed to wound rolls against Orcs, Goblins, and Uruk Hai.


IDK, just ideas.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Pray for SMOG, hope for mounted giant eagles(box set?)
maybe an eleven siege weapon? { what was that crossbow-thing Bard shoots?}
yes to a new high elf profile...say Royal Guard?...akin to Gil-galad's upgrade option

Too many variables...just have to wait and see.
First Ager Smith, signing off-

I like these ideas, but the rule with Dain and Thorin seems like a bad idea...
All I picture is using Thorin as a might caddy, and when he is out of might send him in on a suicide mission to see how much he can kill. After all, when he dies your army gains a significant buff so why not?
Just a worry I have about such a rule (as fluffy as it is)

Anyway, i have to agree the basic combat troop for Mirkwood would be nice. Hopefully we will get to see them when TBOFA comes out. I do recall something being said about elven spearmen from the last time I read the Hobbit (but I might be going crazy). The one thing I am worried about is keeping the profile for these soldiers different from the Galadhrim, which seem like they could almost end up as carbon copies of each other

I would also just like for the army lists with only 1 troop choice receive another option. There are a few from LOTR that need this improvement but also some from the Hobbit, and this needs to be addressed. (it has been, slightly, with the addition of Rivendell Knights, but they are in another army list so thats still a problem)

Thats all that comes to mind right now.

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Just thought of it an perhaps its a bit far fetched to hope for though it does make sense. The easiest way to buff up the high elf warriors would be with a 'Second Age Elven Blade', a new option that is a 4 or 5 point weapon that works like an elven blade (3-6 roll off, can 2-hand) but since it is a master crafted weapon it gives the user an extra attack. A simple home rule to Buff up high elves or a similar rule may be made up in the last movie with the high elf/galadhrim army attacking dol guldor.

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They're all pretty good ideas but this profile is a bit under priced. It would easily destroy iron guard/bezerkers who they are currently on par point wise with. With woodland creature, and body guard they should be at least 17 points because +1 attack is more than 1 point (more like 3ish).

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Hmmm....I do get where you're coming from but I can't say more than one extra point. I compared them to some other two attack models like ferals and their extra attacks are worth 1 pt.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

If you compare to a berserker, the Kings Guard are perfect points wise. A berserker has -2 F, +1 S, +1 C and is the same points. Now as an evil player I can easily say that F values often are worth more than A values since so many fights are won with that value being high regardless of how many attacks are against it, a 6 is a win against most...
But stat wise this profile should be 15 points, and probably would stomp most other 2 attack models because of higher fight values. and if you give them a shield then forget even playing against these guys even with Berserkers you will not win the line against them. and then if they have spears as well, then forget bringing ay force or hero against them since you will face 3 attack line with D7 and high fight value and are better off shaking hands with the guy and keeping your models from any wear and tear on the field. Good match.

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Well.....according to Lord of the Rings, high elves are pretty beast, but what do you guys suggest points wise?

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Ditch the Kings guard rule too. There's no need on a c6 model

Thats not true at all....I literally had this issue recently where the Harbinger of evil rule had my elves having a bad day with rolls.......

Not to mention you can always roll 3 or less...it does happen.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Yes but not often. Like in 8 elves trying to charge a troll, one will fail

I play against wood elves every week, and with the Harbinger of Evil rule, I have had quite a few rounds where he failed 2-4 charges, and because of his small Elven force, I swarmed those rounds and it turned the tide of the battle greatll including helping me to kill Thranduil a couple times.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

My biggest qualm would be with the boar rider. He's under-costed and should absolutely not have access to a war spear or lance. He should be about 20-21 points

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I'd love to see a high elf unit that causes terror like some of the heroes do. Something like a household guard for Elrond that is made up mostly of second and first age elves. Basically the same profile as now but with Lineage of the Firstborn and one other rule to set them apart but not make them better so to speak. Maybe a chop rule like the merchant guard, a bane weapon against orcs and spirits, or better yet Norldor blades like Erestor that reroll wounds. Heck give them an ancient enemy type rule so they are seen as veterans.

Also if the bore riders are strength 4, get a strength 4 wound on the charge and get the cavalry bonus, why would they need lances? No other unit in the game has that kind of hitting power and the dwarves already have some of the best infantry and the toughest heroes around. Giving them cavalry at all let alone the strongest would making the faction stupidly overpowered.

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