Guys i have been heard rumors that the next lotr releashes will be on two months is this really?

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I sure hope so, GW really needs to concentrate more on Lotr, I don't think they understand the kind of market that's out there for Lotr, especially if they make new plastic kits that people actually want, they make some money, for sure.

I hope so, I would like to see more Khand, plastic set maybe. Or new Rohan Horseman, Stone Giants

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Harfoots-The first of the Hobbit people to cross over the Misty Mountains and enter Eriador.

Where did you hear this? If you don't have a source it's just pointless speculation.

On the centres of games workshop at my country that are called fantasy shops.

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Oh and yeah with plastic minis they will make more money especially for plastic heroes.

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Hmm plastic heroes seem extremely unlikely, and the next two months are kinda too soon compared with all the other releases.

Or possibly you don't understand their business and what they make money from..?
It seems odd that people assume that a successdful multi-national company that's been in the business of selling miniatures for 35 years doesn't understand the market...



Platic models cost a huuuge amount to produce initially- yes they sell, but GW have to be positive that they will sell enough to make the costs back before they'll release anything in plastic.
Plastic heroes will never happen.

First of all Lorizael i'm an Economist so I think I know what I was saying. Also I was saying a very General statement about GW. Even though I said that GW doesn't understand, which I did not think about before I wrote it, they still need to bring in context the business that's out there for Lotr. Maybe some more research, like looking into all the different forums on the internet, and sending some representatives to different Hobby stores and to GW's around the world to ask the regular people what they think about Wotr, Lotr the Strategy Battle Game, etc....

I'm just saying this because myself and I'm sure many others do not think GW is doing all that they can to bring Lotr to its peak.

Also for GW's costs, I'm sure that a huge company like them, who Over Price things up the wazoo, can easily make up the money it takes for them to produce the products.

I'm going to agree and disagree with both of you I think GW understands their business as far as that goes, but at the same time they're run by a combo of fossils and geeks who don't really understand how to appeal to a broader audience. The LotR line probably got a lot of people into miniature gaming who would normally not be attracted to their other skull-infested, cartoony offerings. This would include my son, his friends, and all my friends. The movies had a broad appeal, and despite the different races and "ancient" setting, the story was still something most people could relate to on a human level. A big Ork Stompa, on the other hand, is only for those whose faces are most infested with pizza. Polling my son, his friends, and all my friends, we all roll our eyes and are in no way interested. Apparently few at GW understand the value of "story", and are more interested in tabletop shock and awe. WotR appears to be just more of the latter.

Another problem IMHO is they're still trying to run the game experience like it was 1990: big fat rule books which require a mint to set up for a production run, and, never mind the typos, are out of date immediately upon release of the next issue of White Dwarf; sourcebooks that get continually refreshed... They need to get with the digital age wrt how they produce and distribute their wares. Some game companies are heading this route. Wizards requires an online membership to have access to the latest character builders for their D&D line; White Wolf offers all their books as downloadable watermarked PDFs, and are rumoured to be heading towards print-on-demand. I think GW could have a successful service that combines these: paid online membership, which gives you access to a PDF of the rules at a discount, and all profiles downloadable individually and formatted to be 3-hole punched into a binder. They would save a lot in material costs, and it would allow them to be much more responsive to errors (eg: the Outrider/Gamling cheese, or clarifying the status of the Spider Queen).

So in those senses I agree with Feanor, GW needs to change how they do things. They might get a couple year's boost from the Hobbit, but if they continue as they are they'll lose all those potential new customers eventually and be relegated to perpetual geekdom. I'd like to see them hire writing staff who understand the story concept, and can put that to use in building scenarios. Make these available to their subscribers on a regular basis, and the LotR line could have a good long lifespan.

As for plastic heroes, I don't think it makes sense, because individual sales of heroes can't be very high compared to warriors. We only got a plastic fellowship because of the Mines of Moria boxed set. I will never need more than exactly 1 Captain of Minas Tirith...I can't see how they would ever make their money back. Though maybe they could incorporate such minor heroes into some of the warrior boxed sets...

Apologies, I re-read what I wrote and it was a bit blunt.
Just riles me when I see these general statements.

How do you know they don't do that kind of research..? Just because it isn't seen doesn't mean it isn't being done. In the end though it's money through the till that shows what is hot and what isn't.

Maybe they're not "doing all they can to bring LotR to it's peak". But what can they do further? The majority of the models have been made- they could re-do some in plastic and there are the odd squad from the WotR book that hasn't been made yet- but there isn;t much they can do.
Every thing they do do for LotR has to make some money somehow- so more writing of scenarios etc needs to be in a saleable format- and who's to say that it will be that popular. All 6 of the GW stores close to me have huge stacks of the Battlehosts book in stock still because no-one bought them.

In terms of costs; the baneblade kit cost around 1.2 million to produce. Plastic kits are expensive and must have a definite return.

In the end LotR just isn;t as popular as it was 5-10 years ago. The young'uns who go into a GW for the first time haven't seen the films and the older players just don't seem as interested anymore.
Is it more financially viable to produce things that 'might' entice people back or just keep it on the back burner until the Hobbit appears.
40K pays the bills...

I'd love to see more being done for WotR- absolutely love everything about the game, the story, everything! But for now I play with what's available and wait and hope...

Ya you are right,

also no hard feelings for what you said, it happens to all of us.

Well, let's just hope that we'll be getting something nice from the Hobbit!

Let us also not forget that SBG is the only skirmish game that they are selling at the moment, and skirmish games are doing well in other areas, like malifaux, infinity etc. GW does not seem to understand what an elegant product they have. It is pretty simple to understand and pretty cheap to start.

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richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..

Of course, in many ways, all you can say about a big company that has lasted thirty years is that they made money. This doesn't mean they don't make rubbish decisions, they are super efficient, or even much good at what they do. They just made enough money to get big and keep going.

A lot of us have worked for big companies. Were those big establishments omniscienct or perfect or immune to stupidity? Not even a bit. So GW is not above criticism. It is clearly a rather peculiar corporate entity with both a stock market presence (which demands a particular mindset) and a strong corporate cultural identity (which demands another). Lots of GW's success can be put down to things that are euphemised as "a strong commitment to cost control" which means, in plain English, not paying people so well. GW store managers in the US barely make above minimum wage, and are subject to serious restrictions. (Not to mention that you have to - have to - collect and paint an army on your own dime. It's a bit like asking McDonalds branch managers - who earn more - to only eat at McDonalds).

That sort of thing keeps the costs down, and the profits up. It does not denote market prowess. Furthermore, GW are a manufacturing company, and that means that they are often trying to predict market trends 18 months in advance. And market trends can change in days.

Finally, GW is an entertainment company creating works for a "nerd" market, which requires yet another mindset, and juggling yet another set of priorities. Companies operating in the nerd market tend towards a strong commitment to their intellectual property, which often involves making some truly daft decisions to protect or boost that property beyond all other concerns. While people constantly put market values on their IP, in reality such value is often entirely subjective. GW's entire corporate and brand identity is tied to a particular IP - (Warhammer and its sci-fi version, obviously). If people stopped buying Warhammer/40K stuff tomorrow, GW would be gone the day after. This means that if you are a customer of their ancillary products - such as the Ancients books, or the LOTR range - you are not exactly a priority, even if the acnillary work was outperforming the core work.

All of which is a long way of saying that as a company, their wisdom can be questioned, and their strategies wondered about. As customers, its natural to be curious.

On the other side of the divide, all many (any?) of us see is the situation in the one or other local store, or within a local community. It's impossible to gauge exactly what is befelling a game line globally. In one shops, the latest (for example) Dungeons and Dragons release is just sitting on the shelf gathering dust; in yet another they've just reordered a fifth time. What lines are selling and how much is often entirely opaque, and the company itself may not wish to divulge what sales figures are showing (largely because you often can't tell how well something's doing until a year from now, when all the results from all the distributors and retailers and whatnot come in).

So another release in two months? Perhaps. I have noticed that its far more common for them to make releases in spring. Though we might see something in mid december, though I seriously doubt it. I also suspect that their next release will be yet another incomplete command set to go with a pre-existing plastic army. All of the core armies have plastic sets; they don't all have WOTR type command units. As noted elsewhere ad nauseum, the start up costs of making a plastic set are incredibly expensive. It's cheaper just to belt out metals if you don't expect high sales.

If I had to speculate, we'll see another minor plastic release next year sometime, maybe with another sourcebook thingie, as GW continues a pre-Hobbit holding pattern. But again, its just speculation based on things I've noticed.

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I have a feeling that during the past years their intellectual property you mentioned - Warhammer FB and 40k - have become their most valuable possession. That's property they can licence to the Big Boys like movie and game companies and at some point in the future to action figure companies - and I'm not talking here about tiny metal/plastic men that look pretty boring before hours of work spent on them, but the cheaply produced things you see in comic book and movie stores and which have a huge market compared to miniature wargames. Sure, it's possible to make money and keep at least some investors happy by producing miniature games and miniatures, but IP sales may well be what the stock owners want GW to do.

For example, Marvel does not even mention comics to its investors. It produces licenceable IP, which it does by creating comics. Comics is just a means to an end to the company (but of course not to the artists).

That's the reason I don't see LotR or WotR to become as important to GW as WH games. They can only sell LotR products to players, not LotR IP to companies, so it will always remain in lower priority.

I hope I'm wrong.

-- Pasi

No, you're probably entirely right.

Marvel, as you mention, is an IP farm - the comics remain a core business, but the big cash business is in licensing to movies, underwear, posters and t-shirts. GW hasn't gotten that far yet, but I suspect its something they'd love to do. Get Warhammer t-shirts on people who have never even seen a miniature.

LOTR is a prestige license. It earned them a significant return on investment. It doesn't sell as well anymore. It's supported enough to keep it going, but whether that's "enough" or "just enough" is a matter for debate. It's probably "enough" for this late stage in the game's product cycle, but regional differences, and the weird attitudes of GW's more hardcore fanbase and staff probably drive other forms of support into the "barely enough" level.

So while yes, a new SBG would be lovely, and while WOTR will probably drive sales of older product on its own (gotta make those big armies) and while there will be future releases, its best to expect to get what you'll get and leave it at that.

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Dreaming of getting back to painting...any month now.

I must point out that GW workers do get a 50% off to all GW products and do make far more money than the minimum wage. As said by this website and many of the GW workers that I have talked to in the past:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... d=10900004

I know it did for me. I wasn't even aware that tin soldier style games even existed any more before I got my Two Towers starter set.

Maybe I should keep developing some ideas (mostly for 40K) that I've come up with & offer them something.
I think there are a number of minis they could run in plastic that people would be eager to grab up, though. How long have people been calling for High Elven cavalry & doing their own conversions in substitute? Making more plastic hero box sets would be a mistake, but including "hero" options like they did in the SKoDA & MK sets is a good idea. Also, who wants to build up an army of something like moria goblins where the bulk of the force is going to be the same pattern that's been around since the start of the game? They change up the lines in Warhammer & 40K periodically, so why not in LotR?

One question I've got though: I may be remembering wrong, but doesn't their license for LotR expire this year? That would put a serious damper on any new releases.

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Games workshop seems to be letting LOTRSBG sit for a bit after the massive release of War of the Ring. You got to admit, that was massive.
I think they are just riding off the great success of War of the Ring and will keep dribbling out little tiny releases for WOTR (misty mountains, other guys needed ofr WOTR)
I reckon they will keep up with these tiny releases and are just waiting out for The Hobbit.

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The original license agreement was set to expire in 2011, but that was renewed and extended somewhere around 2005 or 2006 (part of that had them buying literary rights as well as retaining the rights to things seen in the movies); so there is no worries about Lord of the Rings disappearing suddenly in a puff of lawyer-created smoke.

As for LotR's performance: I had the chance to talk to one of the guys in the US HQ, a guy who was high up enough to hear scuttlebut, but not so high up to have access to enough explicit details (thus being free from the yoke of NDA forms!), and he said that he has heard quite a few times--albeit strictly anecdotally--that GW is QUITE pleased with the performance of the LotR license and the license holders are QUITE pleased with GW's handling of their property.

I'm inclined to believe this to be true and that this guy isn't just yanking my chain.

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