Just to add a few of my own ideas. Feel free to edit them:

Dragon Guard 12pts
F: 4
S: 3
D: 5
A: 2
W: 1
C: 3

Wargear:
Heavy Armour, Halbard.

Special Rules:
Bodyguard - As normal.
Expert Duelist - Such is the training and discipline of the Dragon Guard that they seldom put a foot wrong in battle. To represent this, whenever a 1 is rolled to win a combat, the dragon warrior may re-roll this result. When using the halbard as a 2-hand weapon, 2's also count as 1's for the purpose of this rule. Note that he may not re-roll a re-roll, whether that is from a banner, this rule, or any other.



I'll just briefly explain this profile.
I see the Dragon Guard as being a highly skilled, fanatical disciple of Sauron, so I have given him 2 attacks to reflect this. While he may not be as savage as a bezerker, I think he should be equally determined. This cost 2 points, which is pretty standard for this type of profile.
He needed some kind of courage rule, so I opted for the standard Bodyguard rule. This was free, which is consistent with Kazad Guard, and Fountain Guard.
To make him unique, I gave him the "Expert Duelist" rule, inspired by Harad's poisoned arrows rule. By allowing 2's to be re-rolled when using the 2-hand weapon, it encourages people to use the halbard in that way. This was 1 point.

Feel free to take any of my ideas.

emperor_thompson wrote:

Just to add a few of my own ideas. Feel free to edit them:

Dragon Guard 12pts
F: 4
S: 3
D: 5
A: 2
W: 1
C: 3

Wargear:
Heavy Armour, Halbard.

Special Rules:
Bodyguard - As normal.
Expert Duelist - Such is the training and discipline of the Dragon Guard that they seldom put a foot wrong in battle. To represent this, whenever a 1 is rolled to win a combat, the dragon warrior may re-roll this result. When using the halbard as a 2-hand weapon, 2's also count as 1's for the purpose of this rule. Note that he may not re-roll a re-roll, whether that is from a banner, this rule, or any other.



I'll just briefly explain this profile.
I see the Dragon Guard as being a highly skilled, fanatical disciple of Sauron, so I have given him 2 attacks to reflect this. While he may not be as savage as a bezerker, I think he should be equally determined. This cost 2 points, which is pretty standard for this type of profile.
He needed some kind of courage rule, so I opted for the standard Bodyguard rule. This was free, which is consistent with Kazad Guard, and Fountain Guard.
To make him unique, I gave him the "Expert Duelist" rule, inspired by Harad's poisoned arrows rule. By allowing 2's to be re-rolled when using the 2-hand weapon, it encourages people to use the halbard in that way. This was 1 point.

Feel free to take any of my ideas.

Looks quite good, maybe a combination of our rules ? This whas mine:
Dragon Guard: 10 pnts

F 4
S 3
D 5
A 1
W 1
C 3

Wargear: Easterling armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
Banner (1 per hero) : 30 pts
Armoured horse: 9pts
Intricately crafted Heavy armour: 1pt
Special Rules: Loyal to the Masters

Dragon Halberd: This is the same as a normal Easterling halberd with the difference that it could been used as either a spear or a 2handed weapon.
When used on horseback, it can be used as a lance.
Loyal to the Masters: Every Dragon Guard wants to become like Amdur and his Dragon Knights and they will follow them to death. To represent this, every Dragon Guard that stands within 14cm/6" of Amdur or a Dragon Knight recieves a +1 to its Fight value.

SO THEN WE GET:
Dragon Guard: ??? pnts

F 4
S 3
D 5
A 1
W 1
C 3

Wargear: Easterling armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
Banner (1 per hero) : 30 pts
Armoured horse: 9pts
Intricately crafted Heavy armour: 1pt
Special Rules: Loyal to the Masters; Expert Duellist; Elite Skills

Elite Skills A Dragon Guard is so trained in using his hellbard that he's able to whirle his hellbard around in a so defencif way, that it counts like he's shielding.
Loyal to the Masters: Every Dragon Guard wants to become like Amdur and his Dragon Knights and they will follow them to death. To represent this, every Dragon Guard that stands within 14cm/6" of Amdur or a Dragon Knight recieves a +1 to its Fight value.
Expert Duelist - Such is the training and discipline of the Dragon Guard that they seldom put a foot wrong in battle. To represent this, whenever a 1 is rolled to win a combat, the dragon warrior may re-roll this result. When using the halbard as a 2-hand weapon, 2's also count as 1's for the purpose of this rule. Note that he may not re-roll a re-roll, whether that is from a banner, this rule, or any other.

_________________
We must forgive our enemies...
But not before they are hanged

I think he's got too many Special Rules...

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Drop the second rule ?

_________________
We must forgive our enemies...
But not before they are hanged

I'd drop the second or third one.

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

He should be F5 and possibly S4 as well he should automatically come with intricate armour IMO. I might also give him 2 attacks as he is as elite as you can pretty much get. I would drop the second rule and give them bodyguard instead. A reasonable cost would be about 17 points with those changed rules.

_________________
"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

This is getting crazy...

_________________
"Woe to the Vanquished!"
-Brennus-

how about this

Dragon Guard: 20 pnts

F 5
S 3
D 6
A 2
W 1
C 3

Wargear: Heavy Easterling armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
Banner (1 per hero) : 30 pts
Armoured horse: 9pts
Intricately crafted Heavy armour: 1pt
Special Rules: Loyal to the Masters; Elite Skills;body guard

Elite Skills : A Dragon Guard is so trained in using his halberd that he's able to whirle his halberd around in a so defencif way, that it counts like he's shielding.
Expert Duelist : Such is the training and discipline of the Dragon Guard that they seldom put a foot wrong in battle. To represent this, whenever a 1 is rolled to win a combat, the dragon warrior may re-roll this result. When using the halbard as a 2-hand weapon, 2's also count as 1's for the purpose of this rule. Note that he may not re-roll a re-roll, whether that is from a banner, this rule, or any other.

Long lost are the days when it simply took a fight value of 4 to make a model 'elite'.

_________________
Hello.

Yeah, things are generally going overboard. You'd think a Ranger of the North would be on par with one of these guys. One of the attractions of SBG was more reliance on player tactics than model abilities. Still, if GW had planned ahead a little better, maybe basing game stats on a d10 with a different wound chart, they'd be able to have more variety without people complaining about stat creep.

@uldor: imho that profile is worth more than 20 points. As well, heavy armour is +2 to defence, not +3, so his def should be 5, or 6 with the intricate armour option.

The "intricate armour" makes me wonder: why don't elves get it? They invented it. Maybe anyone who gets armour that provides +3D suffers -1" movement due to the burden.

good idea

Dragon Guard: 30 pnts

F 5
S 3
D 5
A 2
W 2
C 3

Wargear: Heavy Easterling armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
Banner (1 per hero) : 30 pts
Armoured horse: 9pts
Intricately crafted Heavy armour: 1pt (-1 inch,2cm movement due to burden)
Special Rules: Loyal to the Masters; Elite Skills ;body guard

Elite Skills : A Dragon Guard is so trained in using his halberd that he's able to whirle his halberd around in a so defencif way, that it counts like he's shielding.
Expert Duelist : Such is the training and discipline of the Dragon Guard that they seldom put a foot wrong in battle. To represent this, whenever a 1 is rolled to win a combat, the dragon warrior may re-roll this result. When using the dragon halberd as a 2-hand weapon, 2's also count as 1's for the purpose of this rule. Note that he may not re-roll a re-roll, whether that is from a banner, this rule, or any other.

Now he's too powerful. He should be comparable to other elite troops, not captains (they already have the Dragon Knight, no need for more). You want the model to fill its own little niche within an easterling army.

Trust me on this, he should have 4 fighting skill. This makes him consistant with almost every other elite unit. He should have at most 6 defence - this is the same as the fountain guard without a shield, so again is consistant. Also, warriors don't have 2 wounds, and shouldn't unless you really enjoy bookkeeping.

A good point of reference should be the fountain guard. Don't forget that these guys are supposed to be the best warriors in all of Gondor. If you want other people to use your house profiles, they need to fit nicely into the existing rules.

edit/afterthought:
@whafrog: The existing SBG profile system definitely lack diversity, but at some point the rules do need some form of simplification. A D10 system would be interesting. I know there was some talk about re-writing the old GW rules to better suit the book, but that may be too big an undertaking (forgive my scepticism, I really do think it is a great idea). I think everyone has their own ideas of how powerful each model should be, and I know my ideas are largely influenced by the profiles which were around at the time when I first entered the game - the Return of the King starter kit. I was happy with the state of the rules then, but there weren't too many profiles there either. Now the problem seems to be that GW are trying to keep their profiles fresh, but there is no room to squeeze a new profile between the standard warrior of Minas Tirith and the elite fountain guard, so they just make their new models more elite.

Do you think a D12 system could work (I would personally prefer D12 for aesthetic reasons)? We could produce a supplement easily enough by simply changing F/S/D values of 3 to 6, then adjusting for those models who don't quite fit the mould. I would recommend keeping the new profiles as consistant to existing profiles as possible to avoid controversy. I would personally use the RotK rulebook for the "calibration" of new models, perhaps promoting some older models who have been neglected by the newer rules, then fitting everything newer around this basic framework.

A lot of changes to game dynamics will need to be made for this to work. I'll give it some more thought, and start a new thread to get some ideas flowing.

The problem with rescaling is the wound chart. Each S increment straddles two D ratings. This creates a relatively flat power structure, so that even a Balrog has a 33% chance of *not* wounding a hobbit. If you rescale, you need to reinvent the wound chart, and either figure out how to keep the flat power structure, or create a new power structure and basically start from scratch.

I did start up a set of threads called "By the Book", if you want to see the cans of worms opened wrt rules, browse them They go back to last year. It's a lot of work, and as much as we like to complain about GW, my hat is off to them for creating such a viable, playable and generally consistent set of rules.

ok so...

Dragon guard :15pts
f 4
s 4
d 6
a 1
w 1
c 3

Wargear: intricately crafted heavy armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
shield:1pt
banner:30pts
special rules:
bodyguard


I took all the stats from the guard of the fountin court but i gave them an extra strength (modeling the kahazed guard)

15pts? I'd say 12pts.

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

This is really going over the top now....

_________________
"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

ok so...

then

Dragon guard :12pts
f 4
s 4
d 6
a 1
w 1
c 3

Wargear: intricately crafted heavy armour and Dragon Halberd.
Additionally they may take:
shield:1pt
banner:30pts
special rules:
bodyguard

So they cost 1pt more than a khazad guard and have 1 less defence and 1 less courage as standard? I think the original posts stats were best tbh. There are too many posts in this thread that think the only way to make a good troop is to have a special rule. Look at the best troops in the game and the majority don't have special rules beside 'bodyguard' etc

Good
Khazad: Body Guard
Fountain Court: Body Guard
Woodelf Warrior: Woodland Creature
Wose: (well these are a little broken), Woodland Creature, Ancient Enemy (or some such wording)

Evil
Morannon Orcs: no special rule
Black Guard: no special rule, just good stats
Prowlers: +1 to trap, Cave Dweller (not really that great)
Corsairs: no special rule

I like Cave Dweller rule quite a bit. It makes minor fortifications like fences and low walls useless to the defender and really lends to that feeling of swarming. Like Woodland Creature, it's not always applicable, but where it is it's good tactically and aesthetically

looking back i have made good use of cave dwellers once or twice. It was in a seige game (no model cap) I used every goblin model I could muster and every orc with a few trolls thrown in. I used the trolls/orcs as a distraction at the gate whilst the goblins climbed full speed up the walls. It truely was a thing of beauty watching my 70 goblins suddenly be ontop of the walls