Hi guys, need to start thinking about an army for a 600pt tournament. I'm going to be using rivendell as I have a bunch painted, but could do with your input due to the changes from the new edition.

Two ideas I am toying with:

First is gil galad mounted with 18 kingsguard and then another warband to use up the points. I like the idea of the elite retinue of elves around their king and his killing power is insane so surely will be a lot of fun to use.

Second idea is a more nuanced force with some magic users such as cirdan who I've always liked but he seems more viable now with the free will point per turn. His spells are all buffs so I don't have to worry about them being resisted but that leads me to being more sceptical about taking other spellcasters such as the stormcallers or arwen. Maybe I could take elrond and lindir, not sure!

Any thoughts guys?

_________________
Soon Master Elf, you will enjoy the fabled hospitality of the Dwarves! Roaring fires, malt beer, red meat off the bone!

Make sure you can call heroic moves if you have a mounted elf army. I got 6's for priority each time one game, and my orcs just surrounded the elves. The big mistake that was made was that my opponent wanted to be nice and not attack me with arrows from the otherside of the table... Don't be nice. Be vicious. That and remember-almost no one is gonna have better bows than you, so take Elrond and go 100% bow, with some elves with magic to provide a well rounded army.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

If you have lots of cavalry, Elrond's foresight power is useful now, as it will help to win priority to make sure you can charge the enemy.

I've been wondering about Elrond+Lindir too ... it sounds useful to do lots of nature's wrath, but the problem is that you want to get Elrond engaged in combat, and then he might not be able to cast the spell anyway. So maybe Lindir's free will points for Elrond are more useful just for resisting enemy magic, if there is any.

Arwen got a boost in the new edition, with extra will and a faster horse. Shame she can't wear any armour though!

I have yet to test them out of the field but from what they look like on paper I do not see that their playing style has changed much. The alterations to the heroes are important but they only seem to be minor changes for the most part. Cirdan and Gil Galad will the standard sweet of supporting infantry and a banner will probably get you pretty far at 600pts. That is what I've got my eye on at present anyhow.

_________________
"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

Thank you I may go for gil galad and cirdan then, will let you know how I get on... Only thing to do now is convert a mounted gil galad before the tournament.

_________________
Soon Master Elf, you will enjoy the fabled hospitality of the Dwarves! Roaring fires, malt beer, red meat off the bone!

I would like to confirm my hypothesis about Rivendell at 600pts. I played a game the other day with Gil Galad, Cirdan, and Co. and found that they are still pretty sharp. Gil Galad's new special rules (blood and glory, and lord of the west) came in very handy when he went 1v1 against Azog and killed him in two rounds. The lack of heroic strike spamming also helped I think but the re-rolls make it very tough to handle someone with that high of a fight and +1 to wound. I did not have to keep the banner glued to Gil Galad's side just in case he needed a re-roll which was nice. Cirdan did not have any great rolls with his spells but the free will every turn meant that I did not have to choose between blinding light and aura of dismay and I could keep trying for enchanted blades even once I had an aura up. The elves themselves are only more solid now that they all come with elven blades in their base cost. It makes archers dangerous in close combat (against armor and fight 5 heroes) with no extra investment. The kings guard are defiantly still going to set Gil Galad apart from his compatriots especially since he can bring 18 of them and I think that they can help make up for bringing a support hero like Cirdan or a stormcaller.

Mind you, I am not saying that the Noldor are going to stomp everyone with no problem but I definitely think they have maintain their pre-ME:SBG station as a solid list with similar drawbacks and benefits.

_________________
"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

I changed my mind at the last minute and went with Erestor, Gildor, Cirdan and a mix of warriors with banner, 2 knights and 4 exiles.

Placed 4 out of 12 which I was pretty proud of as I'm not a fantastic player admittedly !

Funnily enough the player who came 2nd took exactly the army I was going to take otherwise, Gil Galad and Cirdan with a bunch of warriors.

There were times when I thought I could have done with a big hero but otherwise I did find it enjoyable to play by having a bit more variety in the list.

_________________
Soon Master Elf, you will enjoy the fabled hospitality of the Dwarves! Roaring fires, malt beer, red meat off the bone!

Yes, high elves play in exactly the same way pretty much, but always with a couple of knights thrown in now. What has changed, though is the meta, which seems to play right into their hands. Dealing with expensive F5 and F6 heroes is what King's Guard have over pm every other troop in the game, and between Gil-Galad and Isildur, nothing, even the Balrog, is safe

I too tried that in the old rules, Scib, taking Erestor, Gildor and a Captain. Granted, you'll get more models, but I always found it almost boring to play without that epic, beatstick hero.

Hello!

New player here. I bought the old first edition game (the big green box with Last Alliance). I played it once, and then it sat in my basement for about the next 17 years, whereupon I've just dug it out since GW launched MESBG.

So, I have 12 Rivendell Warriors with hand-and-a-half swords, 12 Rivendell with Bows, and I also bought the old metal Elrond and Gil-Galad blister long ago.

I've since painted up all of that except 6 bowmen (because 2/3 rule on bows). I have a box of 6 Rivendell Knights coming, and a Stormcaller as yet unpainted that I got from the Lorien Command finecast set I bought. I've also got the Lorien hornblower, standard bearer, and the captain with bow which I've been proxying in the first couple games.

So...I never played before until about 2 weeks ago, so I have no reference point about what Rivendell "used" to play like. What you recommend given my models? What would you recommend getting next? Do Elrond and Gil-Galad work together, or too much beef?

You need to get some spearmen but besides that it's hard to advice you without knowing how much points you play with.

We've been playing at 400 pts at our FLGS. One game was at 600. I've lost all 4 games with my Rivendelves (0-4).

Game 1 was vs. Dead Men. Elrond on foot, and about 12 warriors, 6 archers, I think, 1 horn and 1 banner.

Game 2 was against Isengard. Similar list as above.

Game 3 was 600 pts. vs Moria. Elrond and Gil-Galad, archers and swordsman.

Game 4 last night vs. Angmar. Gil-Galad on horse, 4 knights (a banner), 3 archers and 8 swordsman.

Shooting so far has proved to be useless. Remaining in place to get the army buff is really not worth the not moving part, as hitting is not really the problem, but wounding is.

Elven swords sound great in theory but your choice is to either lose the duel (cuz -1) and not do any damage, or win the duel (and not do any damage cuz str. 3). As soon as you get mobbed (and you will) it's even worse; taking the -1 to duel is suicide, and that fight score of 5 pretty useless at that point.

Last night's game was particularly frustrating, as he had 2 Spectres that just used this ability every turn to attempt to draw my Knights in. It only needed to work once, as he slaughtered my 47 point banner bearer doing this, and that means the whole "Stay back and shoot" strategy was useless.

So far this game has been very frustrating for me.

@Rocmistro, I'm sorry to hear that your games have been frustrating so far. Your army lists seem alright, apart from your lack of shields. Try taking some shields - at least enough for one-third of your infantry, if not two-thirds - so that you can use the Shielding rule. This will keep your Elves alive, and will also occupy more of the enemy models, enabling your other warriors and heroes fight against fewer enemies and kill them.

That's my main advice. Otherwise, just keep shooting as much as you can; I know that sometime it seems ineffective, but even you only kill one model a turn it adds up to a significant amount. You will probably have to rely on your three Attack, mounted, Lord of the West heroes (i.e. Gil-galad, Elrond, and Glorfindel) to do most of your killing in combat, but they are certainly capable of that; try to save their Might for Heroic Combats.

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

I'd like to do some guys with shields but there aren't any models available and I prefer to play WYSIWYG.

For that reason I got some Galadhrim and I'm going to ally in a small Lothlorien contingent.

Sorry to hear you’re having trouble with Rivendell. They do require some practice before you can really excel when them. Here are some notes for you:

1 - definitely get some shields, big bump to D6 plus gives you the ability to shield
2 - shield often. Your simple warrior becomes 2A at F5 or F6 with GilGalad. You can hold off groups of 3 or 4 models with one shielding, D6,F5 High Elf
3- never give a banner to a knight. Just too many points in one potentially vulnerable model. Your knights are for killing things, not generating re-rolls for others
4 - your big heroes have to do the majority of the work, killing two or three enemy models each turn
5 - lastly, Rivendell is a bit of a finesse army, where you need tactics and strategy rather than brute force. Your numbers will always be low and you need to move effectively, use choke points, and plan your strategy. You can’t just rush straight in and fight. If you prefer that type of style, then you’d be best switching to Isengard or Gundabad or another similar brute force type of army

Hope this all helps

_________________
T'was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair..
But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her..

Er tut mir leid!
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/modeling-accessories I found a company that has a good selection of shields if you'd like to make some alterations to your swordsmen. They have some spears too, if you fancy trying your hand at converting some shield and spear men.

About the games then. I would be interested to know how these games have played out in more detail. What was your enemies army like and what sort of things was your hero doing during the game? I drew up some lists from the models you've got and I suspect that your large heroes are really hurting your army at such a low points level. I'd like to know if that is the case. Can you tell us about your Angmar or Isengard games?

_________________
"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

I've lost quite a few games with Rivendell recently too ... mainly because I haven't had much practice at competitive play.

But I think one general principle is it's always best, where possible, to put big heroes (Elrond, Gil-Galad) on horse. For only ten more points on top of their initial huge points cost, you get the bonus one attack on a charge and double their strikes, as well as making sure you can position them where you need them. So I'd put them on a horse even if the rest of the army is on foot. (Though in that case be careful not to run too far ahead and get over-exposed).

The spears and shield troops are still listed on GW's website. I've been building a big unit of these as I think they're more resilient.

That's a good tip, again, only problem is miniature availability I'm still getting the "out of stock online" options for both Rivendell Battle Company and the "High Elf Warriors" kit.

Yeah, annoying.

_________________
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, men of the West!

Do not, I repeat do not sit back and shoot. The scenario objectives are much more important than killing a couple of enemy models. Only shoot if you are sitting on the objective and your opponent has to come at you anyway, or if you are unable to catch your opponent (if you're playing against all cavalry for example, shoot the heroes horses and then run them down with the knights and your heroes).

Do mount all your heroes and do give all your warriors spears, shields (this gives you so much more flexibility, tactically) and as many King's Guard as you can. If you want to try and improve at the game, try actually fighting the battle rather than trying to run away when using what is one of the best close combat armies in the game.

If you're interested in the kind of list I'd run, this is what I'm looking at for 1000pts:

Gil-Galad, shield, horse
17 King's Guard, spears, shields
1 High Elf Warrior, banner

Glorfindel, Lord of the West, Armour of Gondolin, Asfaloth
8 Rivendell Knights, shields

Isildur, shield, horse, the One Ring
4 Warriors of Numenor, shields
6 Warriors of Numenor, shields, spears

Hope this helps. Any more questions, please ask