Hey guys,

I'm looking for some advice. I'm looking at picking up a combat ringwraith, since I have The Witch King and The Undying for spellcasting, but I'm stuck. So, I'm just wondering, which do you recommend for combat purposes (mounted on a fell beast, of course), Khamul The Easterling, or The Dark Marshal? They both have their positives, but I'd love to hear what you guys think about which works better in practice.

Thanks,
Alexander

In case that you are going to play competitive with an all felbeast army (it needs a lot of skill and generally I don't recommend this cheezy puke army that everyone tries to play) you will go for Khamul. He is probably the best combat nazgul, easy convertion too. If you don't know how to use him effectively, google it, there is a ton of detailed guides. If you are going to go for a mordor army with a strong core of elite models, this is the rare occasion that you are going to prefer the dark marshal. He is totally worthy of his points and consider him as an activator mechanic for this kind of army.

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Conversation/Ideas over painting etc, can check here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29455

I'm surprised the question isn't "Khamul or Knight of Umbar", the two fighting wraiths.
Anyway, if you have to pick between Khamul or the Marshal, then go with Khamul. Khamul has the ability to recover his will points when he wounds, something necessary if you want the wraith to fight.

I use Khamul and the KOU a lot, and while Khamul is fun and I think more high-skill, the Knight of Umbar is by far the best combat Nazgul IMHO. Still a strong caster, 3 Might, terrific special rules.

My fear with the KOU is that he isn't superb against regular troops. I fight elves a lot, so he'd tie fights with those regular troops, that's the only thing that worries me, is fighting regular troops, though I guess Combat Mimicry would be great against big heroes. Do you think he's a better option than both The Dark Marshal AND Khamul?

Thanks
Alexander

Generally speaking, it is considered that Khamul>KoU>Dark Marshall. But what I am trying to say is that it is all about what you can use better. Imagine each model's playstyle and try to figure out what works best for you and your army.

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Conversation/Ideas over painting etc, can check here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29455

So, you mean to say that I should take whichever nazgul it is that best fits my army's style, or complements what the army is missing? I think I may start with Khamul, since I see him being capable of doing large amounts of damage, while re-generating his will and being more versatile on a combat-by-combat basis, since you can boost his profile differently in any turn. He would probably be most deadly when paired with another strong offensive threat.

I believe that Khamul is better than the Knight if they are on foot or on horseback (the KoU on foot is actually pitiful), but I believe that on a Fellbeast the Knight has more freedom, considering that he doesn't have to wound to recover wil.

Ok I will answer from view of Ring Edition, as that is what i play (not hobbit)...

Firstly, nazguls are supportive heroes with magic and abilities, not excelling at combat A fellbeast can get a powerful turn with 6 attacks on enemy (twice of a cavetroll), but it requires the priority turn and winning. 50% times it is just 2 strikes, comparable to a normal uruk-hai captain. So, charging from this view purely should be situational.

Secondly, games do not last that many rounds. So a nazgul can attack a few times before game is down, if he just keeps patience with spells (1 or max 2 dices depending on situation).

The Khamul's ability to regain will is limited because of the low maximum amount of will and because if he wants to boost his fight-value, he needs to use will. So, if Khamul get's a lucky turn and a lot wounds, the maximum amount of will can make that neglect. For example, when we compare this to undying, how many rounds does it need that Khamul actually has more will than Undying? 5? 10? And depending on situation, does your own army need a banner carrier, or do you need to counter enemy heroes in areal or etc...

Also, there is only 1 wound on nazgul and 3 wounds on fellbeast... It is not going to last forever.

Answer: Consider the context. If enemy has F6, get knight of umbar. If a lot heroes, get dwimmer. If you need banner, then marshal. and so on.

Good question. I wont be clear enough but it depends on your army. Some armies got punished very easily if you don't fill some holes in their structure (like magic, anti-hero, punch, high fight etc) and some others (rare) just need to exploit a good characteristic and spam it with all your troop selections (p.ex. fast models with a lot of Str). It is your choice, you must define your strategy and be very well aware of it while you play. This is what makes a good player. What suits to your army/playstyle you will only find it by experimenting on board.




To tell you the truth, this is what I believe too, but I've discussed it in the past with some players that are in top positions in worldwide tournaments right now and almost everybody talked like that for Khamul's superiority. That's why I wrote it like "generally speaking". We may probably be correct too. KoU is a great threat undeniably.




You are correct but in most of the occasions you don't know what to expect. Then he should look up at his army for the context missing as I described above in the first paragraph.

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Conversation/Ideas over painting etc, can check here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29455

Why is the KoU on foot pitiful? Throw him into a big hero or monster every turn and he's grand

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Let's fight in phalanx formation with more swordsmen and archers then pikes!
-Easterlings

Oh, and if you do not have any clue what will you face, then simply choose the nazgul that helps you in the most usual situations or in the worst situation.

an opponent worth his salt will just sent his troops to block him. And on foot he does not have the mobility to reach heroes or monsters when he wants to. On foot against regulars the Knight is no different than any other nazgul. At least Khamul can boost his attacks and is a slightly better magician, with Sap Will on 4+ rather than 5+.

The KoU on foot is way better than Khamul on foot. Khamul has to use Will to boost his attacks, and has to kill 2 models every turn to keep level Will stable or drop closer to death and its a tall order for him to kill even one. If KoU wins that's no Will lost, and if there's a Hero or Monster he can use their stats, and he doesn't have to kill to survive only win.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I am genounely happy when I find a KoU on foot. I don't have to worry about sap will and I usually get rid of it quite easily since, unlike other nazgul, he's usually near the frontline. Probably it's because the players I faced so far placed too much hope into his will saving rule forgetting that at his natural state the Knight it's just one strike at S4. Without the mobility to reach heroes for him to mimic, he does not bring much into the fight.

I'm not advocating for taking the KoU on foot to begin with. I'm saying if he is forced off hid horse or Fell Beast, he is better at surviving than Khamul due to the fact that he doesn't expend Will if he wins a fight and doesn't need to expend any Will to gain extra attacks, and he has more Will to start with and an extra Might. I'm not talking about concentrated focus on him or anything. Nor would I suggest taking him or any combat Wraith on foot. I'm just saying Khamul is a lot worse as he loses Will faster. I know he can regain Will but on foot, even with an extra Attack, he won't be able to kill enough models to make up for it the 2 Will he will be forced to spend without even any magic which I woul advise against using when on foot as it'll only get him killed faster, and he will run out before the KoU does.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

So, how many of you actually think that the Undying could be the best combat ringwraith? He has an insane amount of will points, so he can keep up the melee battle for a long time. Also, he has an insane amount of fate points, so the fellbeast won't die suddenly. So, the Undying might be good a choice in case of a typical battle, without knowing the enemies beforehanded, and in most situations (against enemies with a lot archers, against enemies with powerful melee forces and so on).

Of course, the Knight of Umbar is also formidable. He could in theory beat up even the Balrog, the Treebeard or Sauron in 1v1... Of course, it would be quite riscy to send him against these enemies, as he has only 1 wound and a couple points of fate. But in many ways he is overpowered (there is no sense that he gets as much strenght as the enemies, while attacks and fight value are understandable).

The Ringwraith's Fate don't work on his Fell Beast. Azog affecting his Warg is the exception to the rule. The Undying's Fell Beast could still be killed easily, and for me has been.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.