The reason I ask is because of a recent video posted on the DCHL youtube channel.

It's mentioned that often 800 points in 600+ a big hero/magician styled unit.
My question to you guys, is what type of magic do you usually like to use if any at 600 pts or less?

Generally I dont think I'd use one much unless I had a wraith with some orcs and such. I cant imagine myself fitting a wizard in at 600. Most of them are nearly a third of your army with their mount.

What are your opinions gents, and why??

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

This 600pts magic limitation depends alot on the army in question and of course what combos you´re planning to get through...

For example Mordor relies heavily on magic with the ringwraiths to tip the balanced of power in your favour. If not for that, it also its through fury to boost your orcs some extra resistance.

Angmar its another faction that rellies alot on magic, prob even heavier than Mordor since most of the heroe choices are casting wizards, or things that need magic complement to make em effective.

Another exception its the White council, but then you know why anyway.


Other armies like: Rohan, Gondor, Fiefdoms, Harad, dwarves can pass without magic just fine, though in some occasions some cheap wizard to cast a trick or too can be handy.

Other in bettewn armies do have magic more like a trick in the sleeve and very light effects with heavy consequences, like high elves and nature´s wrath casters and such....


What I would expect to see magic wise on army wise at 600? cheap wizards mainly, those under 100pts mostly or shamans.

Really guys three responses? Lol

Of course Galanur magic always comes down to army choice. I was just basically wondering how often people are willing to choose certain armies based on points values.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

It depends on what army I am playing. When we talk about big spellcasters, evil is in a way better position than almost all good armies. Evil spellcaster can lead troops and that is a huge advantage, because you don't have to spend the points necessary to field a hero to lead more troops.
i usually field a ringwraith when I play 600 pts. It's almost a given. Budget wraiths are awesome, but even Named ones are still cheaper than wizards and Galadriel.
I usually don't use Saruman on 600 points isengard, but Sharkey. It still has the 2+ immobilize and it can be quite helpful when you have a horde of uruk ready to swarm. At 600 pts you usually don't find heroes with 3 will points, and Sharkey has proven to be more than enough.

As for good, I only use Galadriel. Command on 3+ and immobilize on 2+ for 20 to 40 points less than a wizard and the ability to lead troops.

Leading troops would be the deciding factor for me I think. I know I'd consider things like Barrow Whites, Shamans, Wood Elf Stormcallers, and the like, even at the expense of a higher tier hero, just because they aren't as likely to get shut down by named wraiths and Wizards before doing anything. I would defiantly bring Gildor for the High Elves in 600pts over a captain to get in the immobilize. Heck, I wouldn't mid Cirdan either if he was not going to get sap willed on turn 2.

To be frank though, I am not sure about whether I agree with the DCHL's assessment of things. Smaller points levels do limit the power of the casters but it also reduce the scope of the battle considerable. One wraith with wings might be even harder to deal with at 600pts then two would be at 800pts. Just because the power of the heroes and the number of troops are scaled down as well. A 450pt dwarven army with Radagast on foot could be every bit as troublesome to deal with as a 600pt army and a sledge riding Radagast.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

What exactly was their assessment? I didnt see what youre referencing.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

That 800pt armies are just 600pt armies with a wizard tacked on and that lowering the points cap will limit the use of magic to some extent. I'm taking about the same video you referenced at the top of the thread.

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"Draw your sword with a heavy heart, but swing it with a heavy hand"

Wan Shi Tong is correct, although the cap can be lower to avoid mass magic usage and to see more "raw fighting around", it will also mean army compositions overall are shorter, therefore some models who had some impact on game quite considerably cause they can handle a couple of situations, it might turn out even easier for them as they need to face less foes to achieve victory.

Ex: Three hunters...

Although this might be kinda bad example, its way easier for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to handle 600pts armies over 800, as the distance on points also kinda relief the amount of stuff they need to handle. This makes a huge diference specially on heroes department where at 800pts you would prob just get an additional heroe or so, it doesn´t actually hurts you that much fielding stuff this way cause you lost 200pts. An army that relie on numbers and tactical flexibility might do get penalized by seeing their same ongoing strategy to a smaller scale which increase their failure rate by alot.

Ex:

Aragorn, isildur´s heir with cloak
Legolas Greenleaf with cloak and armour
Gimli, son of Gloin with cloak

12 Rangers of the North
Dunedain
Dunedain
Dunedain

(all rangers and dunedain given spears)

total: 598pts
You dont have to consider much... now if you want to make things even more complicated at 600.

Aragorn, isildur´s heir with cloak
Legolas Greenleaf with cloak and armour
Gimli, son of Gloin with cloak
Elladan an Elrohir with heavy armour and cloak and bows

total: 595pts

Now you see the balance of power? though you might gain alot from the rangers, those heroes that didnt went well as much in a normal 800pts game, the´re suddently gonna have alot easier life to deal with...

Which thing you would like to face if you picked a single ringwraith budget for your force? I bet you wouldnt like the all out heroe list at all...

I feel like for me it goes more towards what army you're running. There are just some lists that don't have any worth while magic at all, which means if you want some you have to take a wizard, which unless youre playing isengard isn't going to be able to lead troops, with wood elves and Galadriel being another stand out exception. But if you're playing Mordor for example, not only do you have a ton of magic that can lead but also for cheap. Also for many of the evil lists you also have the various shamans, which although they don't have a ton of active casting available fury or a one of transfix can be pretty huge.

Gildor i guess is another example, and he definitely seems ok but if youre running wood elves people tend to go for Thranduil and Legolas first which basically fills up your 500-600 points.

So I feel like I just take strong heroes in whatever list I am trying to play.

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Cheers,

P

Yeah of course it matters by army.

But I was basically asking if someone told you to come to a 600 point tournament, which army would you go for and how much emphasis would you put on having a magician.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I have never played anything bigger than a shaman just because my collection could either never produce a caster or an army for a caster. Come to think of it... that line of thought reminds me that I need to play a scenario featuring all of the fellowship because that is something else I have not experienced. Would be my first time with Gandalf too.

Yes, I am an odd SBG hobbyist. My experiences are strictly with the nameless warriors and captains than the legendary heroes that you'd expect. Woops?

In theory, bringing Gandalf the White at 500 points is risky because Gandalf is taking up a lot of resources when Moria is hording up. The horde > Gandalf. At least, my line of thinking would be "careful, Commi, you might not have enough meat". However, having said this, I would be open to bringing a Minas Tirith themed list and take Ol White anyways. I suspect you'd be playing a very careful game when taking that route... More thought required.

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