Need Critiquing on House Rules

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:47 pm

Forgive me on the great wall of text. Need opinions on House Rules for a group that I have. Would like opinions from veteran gamers, especially on point value balancing.

Quote:

OPTIONAL HOUSE RULES (agreed upon by all players before set up)
Rulesets: (Point Values may be added or reduced for game balancing)

1- THE ONE RULE BOOK + sourcebooks (Strategy Battle Game)
__1.1 Lothlorien/Haldir's Elves troops and heroes are given the option of HEAVY ARMOUR at 2pts and 10pts respectively which increases their Defense by 2.

__1.2 ALL MONSTERS in the game that are not mounts must use the Monstrous Mounts rule at an additional cost of 4pts for regular and 8 pts for Hero.

__1.3 ALL MODELS in the game that cause TERROR when charging, forces the enemy being charged to take a Courage Test. This is an additional 7pts and 20 pts to a Regular model and Hero model respectively.
Futhermore if the charged model fails its Courage Test, he is forced to shield if possible and can't strike wounds for winning a combat. If a model roles double 1's during the Courage Test, he flees the field even if his Courage value is 8

__1.4 ALL regular troop models can use a Captain's/Hero's Courage value for Courage Tests against Terror. The Hero model must be within 6" of the warrior that is testing. This is an additional 2pts to ALL hero models in the game.

__1.50 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their STRENGTH value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 30pts.
__1.51 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their FIGHT value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.52 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their roll to win a fight at max 6. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 15pts.
__1.53 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their COURAGE value. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.54 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner can re-roll failed Courage Tests. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 25pts.

__1.6 CAVALRY CHARGE!, in addition to charge bonuses, if an enemy model is killed the cavalry model can continue its charge momentum into another combat or a new combat as long as it's within 3". The charge continues until a max of 3 combats, fails to kill an enemy, or loses a fight. All cavalry and mounts now cost 1pt extra.

__1.7 PIKES negate CAVALRY CHARGE BONUSES. Pikes now cost 2pts.

__1.8 MORDOR TROLL profile update: Points Value: 90, Defense 6. Additional wargear: CRUDE ARMOUR gives +1 DEFENSE, cost 10pts.

2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion
__2.1 Regular troops can only use BANNERS, HEROIC ACTIONS, and STAND FAST! from heroes AND BANNER-MEN that are in their army list. *This also includes House Rule 1.4

__2.20 A FACTION LEADER (Grand General) of the MAIN FORCE (usually most models or points) can give STAND FAST! to all army lists, including allied factions, and all heroes as long they're in a 12" radius.
Note: Faction = Gondor, Allied Faction = Rohan, Army = Ithilien Rangers
__2.21 If the Grand General dies or flees the field, the whole army & all allies are BROKEN and must test for courage.

3- WARBANDS ed. w/ army books
__3.1 HORN BLOWERS only have a range of 12" and must be within 6" of a hero from the same army list.

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2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion

__2.30 Each ally faction has its own GENERAL which includes the Grand General from 2.20. These GENERALS can affect all their respective army lists in their faction and all their heroes when it comes to STAND FAST! and HEROIC ACTIONS.
__2.31 If a Faction General dies or flees, all that faction is BROKEN for the rest of the game.
__2.32 A Faction is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.

__2.40 An army host is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.
__2.41 An army host is BROKEN if it loses its LEADER.

Khan_gfn · **Posted:** Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:07 pm

For now I can say that the new cavalry charge rule seems to be broken. I know that cavalry needs a bit of improvement, but this particular rule is just to good, one cavalry charge can destroy entire line of an enemy, which is maybe more realistic, but not really sound in a game, and I would get rid of it or change it.

Also I don't see a reason in weakening the horns, they're not even particularly worth it now.

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

Sacrilege83 wrote:

Forgive me on the great wall of text. Need opinions on House Rules for a group that I have. Would like opinions from veteran gamers, especially on point value balancing.

Quote:

OPTIONAL HOUSE RULES (agreed upon by all players before set up)
Rulesets: (Point Values may be added or reduced for game balancing)

1- THE ONE RULE BOOK + sourcebooks (Strategy Battle Game)
__1.1 Lothlorien/Haldir's Elves troops and heroes are given the option of HEAVY ARMOUR at 2pts and 10pts respectively which increases their Defense by 2.

I dont think that should apply, Lorien elves been known to carry light armour and not heavy. Perhaps you could open exception to galadhrim since the caras galadhon have it.

__1.2 ALL MONSTERS in the game that are not mounts must use the Monstrous Mounts rule at an additional cost of 4pts for regular and 8 pts for Hero.

So you mean extra attacks and knock out capabilities.... hmm would be interesting but I would just recommend a very specific kind of monster like eagles as for trolls, well maybe...but no no to point costs, extra attack and knock out capabilities to an already enhance monsters with special brutal power attacks would increase 10pts per monster, 20pts on heroe monsters easily...

__1.3 ALL MODELS in the game that cause TERROR when charging, forces the enemy being charged to take a Courage Test. This is an additional 7pts and 20 pts to a Regular model and Hero model respectively.
Futhermore if the charged model fails its Courage Test, he is forced to shield if possible and can't strike wounds for winning a combat. If a model roles double 1's during the Courage Test, he flees the field even if his Courage value is 8

This rule is tricky.... I would rather just say, Terror causing models enemies must test at the beginning of the fight or suffer a -1 to win roll on the duel and cannot strike back in case they win the combat. Fleeing from the field part its just 2 much man.... can you imagine the unbalance of the last part? :P
Look at me using a full black numenorian army and easily 4/5 models per turn would flee from the field to double 1s...

__1.4 ALL regular troop models can use a Captain's/Hero's Courage value for Courage Tests against Terror. The Hero model must be within 6" of the warrior that is testing. This is an additional 2pts to ALL hero models in the game.

This would cost 5, heroes normal standarts for a buff its either 5 or multiples of this number: 10/15/20/25....

__1.50 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their STRENGTH value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 30pts.

No 1 would get a 60pts ish guy on the field that die easily despite the awesome buff... or rather I would give an awesome new purpose for legolas to take almost twice his point cost in 2 rounds hunting 2 banners..

__1.51 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their FIGHT value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.52 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their roll to win a fight at max 6. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 15pts.
__1.53 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their COURAGE value. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.54 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner can re-roll failed Courage Tests. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 25pts.

The effects on banners are fun.... but I would just get the re-roll failed courage tests in addition to the current effects ...(they take pride on their banner´s of war) but they dont inspire a person to be a god in the field around it.

__1.6 CAVALRY CHARGE!, in addition to charge bonuses, if an enemy model is killed the cavalry model can continue its charge momentum into another combat or a new combat as long as it's within 3". The charge continues until a max of 3 combats, fails to kill an enemy, or loses a fight. All cavalry and mounts now cost 1pt extra.

Interesting and can work out but keep in mind as for heroes youre giving free up to 3 heroic combats.... thats is just 2 deadly, get a gil galad, elendil, isildur, elessar or a nazgul on fellbeast and imagine the beastly bonus they all get... 2 strong thing to describe I wouldnt apply (ban) this rule. I would make just 2x and to let see if the horse continues the momentum for the 2nd time, roll a D6 on a 1,2,3 the horse would loose momentum, on 4,5,6 the horse momentum would lead for the second charge (heroic combats cannot be called while this bonus apply)

__1.7 PIKES negate CAVALRY CHARGE BONUSES. Pikes now cost 2pts.

Interesting.

__1.8 MORDOR TROLL profile update: Points Value: 90, Defense 6. Additional wargear: CRUDE ARMOUR gives +1 DEFENSE, cost 10pts.

Interesting

2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion
__2.1 Regular troops can only use BANNERS, HEROIC ACTIONS, and STAND FAST! from heroes AND BANNER-MEN that are in their army list. *This also includes House Rule 1.4

Interesting

__2.20 A FACTION LEADER (Grand General) of the MAIN FORCE (usually most models or points) can give STAND FAST! to all army lists, including allied factions, and all heroes as long they're in a 12" radius.
Note: Faction = Gondor, Allied Faction = Rohan, Army = Ithilien Rangers
__2.21 If the Grand General dies or flees the field, the whole army & all allies are BROKEN and must test for courage.

2.21 its 2 bad... I would just apply a -1 to the dice result roll or something

3- WARBANDS ed. w/ army books
__3.1 HORN BLOWERS only have a range of 12" and must be within 6" of a hero from the same army list.

hmmm

More

Quote:

2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion

__2.30 Each ally faction has its own GENERAL which includes the Grand General from 2.20. These GENERALS can affect all their respective army lists in their faction and all their heroes when it comes to STAND FAST! and HEROIC ACTIONS.
__2.31 If a Faction General dies or flees, all that faction is BROKEN for the rest of the game.
__2.32 A Faction is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.

You got "butthurt from goblins dont you? lol....same mention as previous 2,21

__2.40 An army host is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.
__2.41 An army host is BROKEN if it loses its LEADER.

I dont agree with 2.41 I hope you realize the gamble gonna get for heroe leader hunting here and game gonna change drastically cause of it.... test the rules 1st..

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:27 am

Thank you very much for your responses and judgement. We'll test them out if agreed upon, then do tweaks.

Galanur, I like some of your suggestions and appreciated the detailed criticism.

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Also I don't see a reason in weakening the horns, they're not even particularly worth it now.

I put this rule because I played games where the Horn Blower just hanged back. I don't know the exact rules of the Warbands edition because I've never played it, but we were using the Horn Blower in the original edition. I've put a range on it because I find it crazy that it gives an automatic courage buff with no limits. 12" radius is a lot, that covers 2' of a 4'x4' or 4'x6' table. Second, why should a lone Horn blower give out signals to the army without a leader to give a command? Horns follow the commands of their leader, hence the 6" rule. So if anything I should reduce the points cost of the Horn Blower for balancing. Maybe 5pts less. Keep in mind a Banner costs 25 or 30pts just for re-rolling one die to win a fight.

@ Galanur, maybe a force being Broken when a leader dies is to drastic. So maybe the force should just test once after the leader dies or like you said, -1 to courage tests when a force eventually breaks.

Dikey · **Joined:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:19 am **Posts:** 508

Quote:

OPTIONAL HOUSE RULES (agreed upon by all players before set up)
Rulesets: (Point Values may be added or reduced for game balancing)

1- THE ONE RULE BOOK + sourcebooks (Strategy Battle Game)
__1.1 Lothlorien/Haldir's Elves troops and heroes are given the option of HEAVY ARMOUR at 2pts and 10pts respectively which increases their Defense by 2.

No. They are wood elves, skirmisher, not high elves. If we give them this options, why not rohan then? Why not Mordor orcs or Goblin? Just no.

__1.2 ALL MONSTERS in the game that are not mounts must use the Monstrous Mounts rule at an additional cost of 4pts for regular and 8 pts for Hero.

Absolutely not, expecially not for 4 points! A monster that can already rend has no need of cavalry bonus: the dumbest troll, would strike 8 times at S6. The only other model who can do that is the Knight of Umbar on fell beast copying a 3attacks hero, which is worth almost 4 times the Troll
Plus, you haven't considered how this very rule plays with others in this list. Add this rule with your cavalry rule and your terror rule and the game is over.

__1.3 ALL MODELS in the game that cause TERROR when charging, forces the enemy being charged to take a Courage Test. This is an additional 7pts and 20 pts to a Regular model and Hero model respectively.
Futhermore if the charged model fails its Courage Test, he is forced to shield if possible and can't strike wounds for winning a combat. If a model roles double 1's during the Courage Test, he flees the field even if his Courage value is 8

I say no the second rule right now. As for the first, this is huge, but it should be tested first. A line of Black Numeneorean backed by a Nazgul may break the game without giving the opponent the slightest chance to win.

__1.4 ALL regular troop models can use a Captain's/Hero's Courage value for Courage Tests against Terror. The Hero model must be within 6" of the warrior that is testing. This is an additional 2pts to ALL hero models in the game.

Sort of a Stand Fast. It could work.

__1.50 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their STRENGTH value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 30pts.
__1.51 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their FIGHT value. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.52 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their roll to win a fight at max 6. It effects the entire models in combat if only one model is in range. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 15pts.
__1.53 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner adds +1 to their COURAGE value. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 20pts.
__1.54 BANNERS: models within 3" of a banner can re-roll failed Courage Tests. This rule stacks with all other special rules a banner may have. ALL BANNERS in the game comes at an additional cost of 25pts.

Those are banner options, right? It may work: there are already special banners in the game, but I would not give option for cumulative effects.

__1.6 CAVALRY CHARGE!, in addition to charge bonuses, if an enemy model is killed the cavalry model can continue its charge momentum into another combat or a new combat as long as it's within 3". The charge continues until a max of 3 combats, fails to kill an enemy, or loses a fight. All cavalry and mounts now cost 1pt extra.

Not for 1 point! It's huge. I think of Eomer (KotP) or any other with 3 attacks. Is not just a free heroic combat, but 3 free heroic combats.
Plus, imagine this rule combined with your rule of monster charging. One charging Mordor troll captain, and the game is over.
Side note #2. Charging monster combined with your terror rule. There won't be any way to stop a monster.

__1.7 PIKES negate CAVALRY CHARGE BONUSES. Pikes now cost 2pts.

Make them 5. Negating cavalry bonus is huge.

__1.8 MORDOR TROLL profile update: Points Value: 90, Defense 6. Additional wargear: CRUDE ARMOUR gives +1 DEFENSE, cost 10pts.

2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion
__2.1 Regular troops can only use BANNERS, HEROIC ACTIONS, and STAND FAST! from heroes AND BANNER-MEN that are in their army list. *This also includes House Rule 1.4

I agreed. It's logical

__2.20 A FACTION LEADER (Grand General) of the MAIN FORCE (usually most models or points) can give STAND FAST! to all army lists, including allied factions, and all heroes as long they're in a 12" radius.

Makes sense, but then there would be no point in having models with the double range stand fast special rule.

Note: Faction = Gondor, Allied Faction = Rohan, Army = Ithilien Rangers

__2.21 If the Grand General dies or flees the field, the whole army & all allies are BROKEN and must test for courage.

Makes sense.

3- WARBANDS ed. w/ army books
__3.1 HORN BLOWERS only have a range of 12" and must be within 6" of a hero from the same army list.

They are already expensive. No one would field an hornblower with that rule.

More

Quote:

2- LEGIONS of MIDDLE-EARTH expansion

__2.30 Each ally faction has its own GENERAL which includes the Grand General from 2.20. These GENERALS can affect all their respective army lists in their faction and all their heroes when it comes to STAND FAST! and HEROIC ACTIONS.
__2.31 If a Faction General dies or flees, all that faction is BROKEN for the rest of the game.
__2.32 A Faction is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.

__2.40 An army host is BROKEN if it loses more than half its troops.
__2.41 An army host is BROKEN if it loses its LEADER.

They have sense. I would not apply those rule, but they have sense.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:17 pm

^Thank you for your input! Will re-work the rules.

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No. They are wood elves, skirmisher, not high elves. If we give them this options, why not rohan then? Why not Mordor orcs or Goblin? Just no.

I wanted to give this option because the elves look so obviously wearing heavy armour. The models, and in the films, they are in fact in full plate armour and chain mail. Rohan is just leather. Goblins? Let's not compare goblin armour crafting with elven, no contest lore wise. I also wanted this rule because I find elves to be underpowered for their value.

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Pikes: Make them 5. Negating cavalry bonus is huge.

I feel 2 points are good, no one would take pikes costing 5, especially if the enemy doesn't field cavalry. It's crazy already that the weapon cost 1 pt when it offers an extra support behind a spearman. Pikes are very rare in SBG, and their main role in reality is to defend against cavalry, which is why I'm surprised GW didn't even consider to add a special rule against cavalry.

Dikey · **Joined:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:19 am **Posts:** 508

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I wanted to give this option because the elves look so obviously wearing heavy armour. The models, and in the films, they are in fact in full plate armour and chain mail. Rohan is just leather. Goblins? Let's not compare goblin armour crafting with elven, no contest lore wise. I also wanted this rule because I find elves to be underpowered for their value.

Just because it covers most of the body, doesn't mean it's heavy armour. You can see by the way they run in the movie that the armour isn't heavy.
Plus, the Elves are actually Undercosted. Take a warrior of numenor, for example. For a mere point more the elf has 1 more fight and 2 more courage. Elves fight (both shoot and close quarter) value is impressive, and so is their courage. The first issue of the fan magazine actually explains that point better.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:49 pm

Very well.

generalripphook · **Joined:** Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:02 am **Posts:** 127

For the Calvary Charge thing I would change it to this

Heroic Charge: If a hero mounted on a horse calls a Heroic Charge all mounted models within 3' count as if they are in a heroic combat. However they cannot charge the same models twice.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:21 am

Here's an updated version.

Browne115 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:20 am **Posts:** 19

I think some of these are interesting but unless you want games to end very quickly due to combinations of these rules being used brutally by army lists then some of it will need moderating.

The monstrous mount for all monsters will have to be altered - if you mounted someone on a mordor troll or troll chieftain it would give fight 7, strength 7 - 8 attacks on the charge... combine that with the terror rule which means barely anyone would be able to beat it and it would be nigh unstoppable - then add the cavalry charge rule giving it 3 fights per turn without using might...

Cavalry - the momentum rule is quite a good idea and would make a charge more devastating - but so it should be in some ways - i agree more with the suggestion above that a dice roll would better decide this - ie 123 - momentum lost, 456 - continue to charge. Logically though, while it may be more unfair - if you win but do not kill then should you be able to continue - after all your opponent is downed and thus out of the way. If you are going to have this should we differentiate between heavy cavalry and light cavalry?

I like the point about pikes - perhaps this could apply to spears as well as it is a little harsh that only a few races actually can take pikes - with rules like these you will see everyone field easterlings or dol amroth just in case the opposition takes cavalry. They already have the bonus that you can back up twice with them and form blocks of infantry. Also you will need to be specific - is the anti-cav bonus still gained if the pikes are backing regular hand weapon/shield armed warriors?

With regards death of the general - being broken is a little tough - would it be perhaps better to have an initial courage test on this but only one turn.

I like the banner upgrades.

My only other point is while factioning with stand fast and banners etc is a logical point I wouldnt play around with stand fasts beyond this - lots of models have upgrades to this in their profiles that would no longer be worthwhile. Also using a heroes courage makes it difficult to break groups of troops come a certain stage if the hero is courage 6/7 which many of the best ones are.

Also logically, some factions would identify and may be inspired by another banner - most allies of sauron would identify and defend a red eye banner?

Just some thoughts - some good ideas here but some very powerful modifiers that as pointed out could end a game fast - terror causing black numenorians could be devastating (especially if mounted as morgul knights)

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:13 am

Ah, you're responding to the original post, I've uploaded an updated attachment of my rules. But yeah I should be more specific on pikes that it's only when pikes are charged, and maybe there should be a dice roll for momentum on a cavalry charge. Most banner upgrades I got rid of because they're to0 overpowering.

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