All times are UTC


It is currently Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:24 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:35 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 1465
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Images: 30
Finally got around to watching most of the special features on the extended edition. Funny to see how Smaug would have looked like with four legs, then when the design team presented the final version to Peter, at the very last moment Peter wanted there to be a design change resulting in all the design team being stunned. Peter didn't like the four legged version because it reminded him of a puppy, having two legs would make Smaug more predatory. So the design team gave Smaug vampire bat wings with hands.

They were also going to do without the gold encrusted belly, but a fan reviewing a trailer sent Peter on a guilt trip when he mentioned "can't wait to see Smaug with his gold belly". So they added coins in.

It's nice to see the process, how it was designed, voiced and brought to life. They stated how Gollum had thousands of pixels in LOTR, Smaug had like millions and each of his scales were individually painted instead of copy paste cloning. Talk about detail to the max.

_________________
My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:56 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 532
Location: Kildare, Ireland
I like the wyvern style. Makes him look less cutesy and fairy tale, and more menacing.

_________________
Click to: Show
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and
Desert you
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:15 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:28 am
Posts: 128
Images: 10
yeah it makes him a bit more of a character, as he now has arms.

_________________
My WIP topic! Erebor & Moria!
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27620
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:11 am
Posts: 1091
Location: Massachusettes
Images: 3
And all the Dragons of Skyrim are this style too (playing second time through that game now with the legendary edition).

_________________
http://www.sithious.webs.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:25 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:36 pm
Posts: 918
Location: in the blackpit
It's a modern day fashion, GoT, Skyrim, the hobbit...

Personally for me as much as he looks like a good wyvern when I went to see dos I had my childhood ruined.

on the map he even has 4 legs :(

I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment

_________________
http://grungehog.blogspot.co.uk/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:02 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:11 am
Posts: 1091
Location: Massachusettes
Images: 3
Grungehog wrote:
I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment


I ran out of steam to defend him with myself. I was a huge PJ fan, Meet the Feebles, Bad Taste, Dead Alive are all great, Frighteners is a classic, Lord of the Rings was awesome. Kink Kong I was kind of seeing him going too Hollywood and starting to be over the top, like way over the top, making way more than needed adventure CGI creatures was priority over a good story.
With Hobbit, I was able to forgive a few things as the groundwork was lain for a Del Toro film and well, the films do look very Del Toro influenced.

But now I know for sure that PJ is sold out and is more into CGI over the top and giving Hollywood what it wants more than the fans (like Legolas getting more screen time than Beorn and more creatures than we actually need to make a good Hobbit film).

Thus... even though he had a 4 leg Smaug in his film already, he just had to change it, most likely due to some lame guy at a meeting with MGM or some such suggested it.

_________________
http://www.sithious.webs.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:41 pm 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:04 pm
Posts: 258
I have the book about the design of Smaug and there are some very interesting, and for me understandable reasons why they changed it.

1) The question of where the "arms" go when he flies. It is less aerodynamic and looks a bit odd if he only has them hanging down.

2) Posture. If he had 4 legs his wings would mainly be close to his body what looks more boring. More like a dog or a cat. If he has his wings attached to his arms they are open most of the time and look impressive when he moves inside Erebor, making him look bigger and more dramatic.

I have to agree with Sithious though, it PJ uses more and more CGI and action sequences than necessary. The Uruks were perfectly fine and more realistic than for example Azog. Whenever I see Azog I see a CGI orc, whenever I see Lurtz I see an orc. The scenes in part one where the dwarves slide down into Goblin town looks for me as if it was only done because of 3D. And every Legolas shot only I only have to think that he simply doesn't belong there. He is like the super agent of middle earth now, always saving the day. Nevertheless I am really looking forward to the new Hobbit movie, it is just a great experience and another film set in Middle Earth. I will still imagine the Hobbit while reading the book as I did before and not like the film. But the film is great, great inspiration and expands my imagination. Especially regarding locations and costumes...

_________________
http://www.hdrskirmisher.wordpress.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:55 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am
Posts: 1121
Grungehog wrote:
It's a modern day fashion, GoT, Skyrim, the hobbit...

Personally for me as much as he looks like a good wyvern when I went to see dos I had my childhood ruined.

on the map he even has 4 legs :(

I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment

We'll always have the theatrical edition of AUJ, where some proper front legs are stamping on Dwarves when Smaug enters Erebor. Remember those moments, and rejoice (both for the four legs and the smashing of Dwarves).
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:41 pm 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:04 pm
Posts: 6308
Location: Wandering around looking for Middle-earth
Images: 58
Well personally I hate four legged dragons and so I was pleased that, whatever the reason, Jackson changed Smaug to look this way, as this is the only way I can see him as a majestic beast, 4 legged dragons always look clumsy to me. This is probably not the right topic to express these feelings though as it seems you are all very ant-two legs.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:08 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 1465
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Images: 30
Sithious wrote:
Kink Kong I was kind of seeing him going too Hollywood and starting to be over the top, like way over the top, making way more than needed adventure CGI creatures was priority over a good story.

So has said Viggo Mortensen.
Sithious wrote:
Thus... even though he had a 4 leg Smaug in his film already, he just had to change it, most likely due to some lame guy at a meeting with MGM or some such suggested it.

Well he gives his reasons on the DoS EE special features as I've posted in the OP. But that is some theory you have.

@Gothmog, nope you're not alone in that preference, though I prefer the traditional four legged + wings, but none of that matters to me all that much because Smaug was such a magnificent character in the movie no matter ho many legs he had. But I understand how Jackson ruined people's childhood vision of him, and went against Tolkien's sketch. You think that PJ and all those concept artists being fans of the novel would have kept it traditional. Interesting at the end of the feature PJ had an epiphany that it doesn't matter how he looked like all to much, it's the personality and character in the end (as if saying he could have left it the way it was before.)

One thing I noticed throughout these special features is that PJ changes his mind quite often and at the very last minute too. Azog is another example of this.

_________________
My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:12 am 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 399
Location: Norway
Two legged dragons have become more common in films and tv-series.

Reign of Fire
Harry Potter 5 & 7
Sucker Punch
Game of Thrones

All of the dragons above have two legs.

_________________
- RIP Fimbul and Narzug -
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:22 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:11 am
Posts: 1091
Location: Massachusettes
Images: 3
Sacrilege83 wrote:
Smaug was such a magnificent character in the movie no matter ho many legs he had.


Yeah, Smaug scenes were the best in the DoS film as the Gollum scenes were among the best of AuJ. I do love the character and interaction. I am not fond of the chase scene as it makes Smaug look like a dolt, but even so the entire erebor sequence was very well done. I don't mind either 2 or 4 legs on a dragon, even great wyrms with no legs are fine by me, I am a long time RPG'er. But I do have a problem with directors changing their vision after they have shown it, Like Lucas with the Star Wars films, some people hate the changes to the theatrical versions, regardless of it being better effects. The quip about a MGM meeting may not be true (MGM uses a Lion as the logo and they are 4 legged predators, puppies are predators too just domesticated), but obviously he didn't just pull it out of his but, he thought about it a while, probably talked with all the producers and executive producers several times, also had to compare both versions and alternates, and eventually made the decision before it was too late to change it.

_________________
http://www.sithious.webs.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:20 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 107
Location: hertfordshire
I was hoping for a for legged dragon akin to Tolkien's drawings but after seeing the design process on ee-DoS I was definitely won over by the reasoning PJ gave. Two legged was definitely the right call.

_________________
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWargamerTV/videos
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:27 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:20 am
Posts: 1776
I think 2 legs looks very sinister, kind of like the fellbeast. I like that they both only have 2 legs. It gives me the sense that dragon's are evolved and more intelligent cousins of the fellbeast.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:22 am 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:42 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: In Angband, at Morgoth's feet.
If by evolved you mean given actual intellect by Morgoth, then yes, that is sort of their relationship to fell beasts.
I love the serpentine look of Smaug, he's still huge, but he's not bulky. When I used to picture him, I would usually see the dragon from Shrek: bulky, not very aerodynamic, very cartoony. But Smaug looks like something that could bulldoze a mountain and strike faster than a snake. His appearance is the perfect combo of brute strength and lightning speed.

_________________
:saruman "Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:37 am 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:45 am
Posts: 54
Looking at the artwork for the 4 legged Smaug left me disappointed. he looks more grand and imposing. Peter should have kept the 4 legs and changed the animation, if you've seen how a komodo dragon or other monitor lizards walk there's nothing puppy like about it, they have very predatory and serpent like movements. Very imposing.

_________________
"Would you like a Stompa with your paintbrush?"
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:49 am 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:36 pm
Posts: 918
Location: in the blackpit
The design I have gone for with my sculpt is that of a beast with feasible proportions 4 legs and 2 wings but the front limbs are thinner and more bony. and I think it could have worked had PJ kept to a similar design

_________________
http://grungehog.blogspot.co.uk/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:37 pm 
Wayfarer
Wayfarer
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:54 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Chelmsford
The Wyvern design works better I think because it gives him a more "natural" look, PJ made the right call :) I can understand the deviation from Tolkiens original drawings of Smaug upsetting some people, but it paid off in the end.

_________________
Can't rain all the time.....
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: