Well I mean I am looking for a suggestion you guys who dislike the rule would prefer.

Unless you guys really think an axe should be handles the same as a sword in combat, which I disagree with.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Feint is fine, it's just a silly name considering the main incentive to feint is being an inferior fighter, not a finessed one.

Piercing strike already requires a second roll, so I think LotBRs suggestion is a good one.

At the moment an axe is far superior to any other weapon, because piercing strike is much better than the rest. I've never seen anyone bash or whirl, and feinting is an auto-decision if you are lower fight. I just feel in general as though the special strikes either need re-thinking, or scrapping, because at the moment they are either overpowered, pointless or a non-decision. i like meaningful decisions.

Eowyn- as an independent hero she's far less useful, and so I wouldn't add too much to her points value for the extra attack and some very situational special rules (basically only useful against wraiths). Perhaps another 10 points on what she is now, and the special rules are (more than) offset against the independent hero rule?

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It surprises me a bit how many people prefer to piercing strike all the time, as I'd rarely contemplate doing so with e.g. Dwarves, whose main advantage (high Defence) is very much at risk. When using Hobbit militia, on the other hand.. very little to lose and a lot to gain by using an axe, so that's an easy decision. Similarily, I can imagine that people like to have Wood Elves with axes, or Reavers. Not so sure about anything D5 and higher though.

As for alternative rules, +1 to wound or -1 Defence isn't the best of ideas, as -1D doesn't matter half the time (e.g. when D5 and against S3, you don't risk anything by possibly becoming D4; the opponent needs a 5+ to wound regardless). -2D fixes that, or indeed +1 to wound for whoever wins te fight (incidentally very similar to Dane axes in SAGA: -1 Armour to both sides, to show the lack of shield on the wielder and the penetrating force of the axe).

As for the other strikes, 'stun' is pretty amazing, but very few models can use it of course. Nonetheless, a Hobbit shirriff shutting down a Mordor troll for the next turn on a 4+ is a lot of fun. Situational, yes, but potentially huge.
Feint desperately needs a change, to stop the automatic re-rolls for goblins (while making the Blackshield special rule useless).

If anything, however, I'd prefer to remove the movement penalty for bows. If I have enough time to shoot an arrow (which doesn't exactly take long), I have time to aim as well. Doesn't add any extra time whatsoever, and unlike how movies like to present it, a proper bow is way to heavy to actually keep strained for any protracted period of time. Volley fire I can live without (the mechanism wasn't great anyway, although the results were occasionally fun), but the movement penalty is unnecessary and unrealistic.

I would give Drar a 3+ shoot value. I don't even use him but I find it really annoying that as a hero with a shooting special rule he isn't as accurate as a Dwarf Ranger. Similar thing goes for Lurtz but that's already been well discussed over the years.

I am glad someone else thinks the same! An archer hero being worse in archery than some other units of the army is ridiculous; I would also cut down the cost of Murin & Drar by about 10 points.

i can take or leave the +1 to hit with a bow; however something that makes NO logical sense is +1 to hit with throwing weapons. anyone with any experience in athletic javelin-throwing, and use of historic throwing weapons that it is all but impossible to get ANY accuracy or power behind a throwing weapon without movement. that is my single most hated rule in the game, especially considering how i love throwing weapons.

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All hobbits should have some kinda massively OP strength at the start of the round which wears off after a while. Y'know, to replicate when they eat before a battle or whatever.

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This has to be the most amazing rule suggestion ever! Maybe we should extend the rule to some Dwarves (Bombur I am looking at you in particular).

Isildur-Yeah.....very true. I agree totally.

Sid-LMAO thats a funny one. I think the problem is keeping track of all the hobbits.

Maybe turn 1-3 they have strength 4 turns 4-6 they have strength 3, then after they have regular strength.

But that requires a special rule.

I believe that should be +2 points per model and called 'A Hobbits Feast'.

It would be OP any cheaper. Can you imagine an army of 60 guys with even strength 3 for their cost.....

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Are the special strikes considered to be optional?

I'd give Legolas the ability to fire an arrow whilst charging into combat like a throwing weapon, or use an arrow as a throwing weapon whichever. For example in the films he stabs enemies with arrows and then fires etc

For an individual profile, I would drop Bolg's Fight value by 2. I'm all in favor of a monstrous orc hero, but to me fight value represents your skill, which is something that orcs usually come up short on. I'd rather see them with some brute force (which he also has aplenty) than as a superior fighter to centuries-old elf lords.

For a "rule," I'd like to see the convention of shafting characters who die in the narrative on their Fate score. If someone gets killed at the hands of Sauron, for example, or even just dies in battle, that doesn't mean to me that they deserve no fate. In fact, that should be a scenario-specific rule, in my opinion, to push the game towards (without outright enforcing) adherence to the storyline. For example, Theoden should have the same amount of Fate as other heroes in his class, but then maybe he gets none in the Pelennor Fields scenario, so that if he does survive it really is against the odds, rather than him just being more prone to die than a comparable hero, no matter what fight it is that he's in.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

i would allow any troll hero to be able to lead any type of troll. half troll, cave troll and mordor/ isengaurd troll. i really want a troll army mix with these

1-You really think that about Bolg? Well, I believe some old profiles should be re written honestly. I do think though they've given him his fight because of what happens in the next movies. +++SPOILERS ON BATTLE OF FIVE ARMIES+++I think because of the fact Thorin is killed, and then Beorn comes and rips Bolg to shreds, therefore giving him the 8 fight he has. I dont agree with some of the epic elves being tied with him, or less but you have to realize theyre making the new profiles better than they did some of the first. I mean, there probably should be a new profile for Dain in the next movie with a fight 7 also....he kills Azog after all.
+++++SPOILERS END+++++

Personally though, besides the likes of Gil Galad, Elrond, Aragorn, Boromir, Glorifindel, and a few others, Bolg should have higher fight than almost all units. The fight represents to me, his general chances of winning a fight. Not just skill. For example, is a cave troll as highly skilled as Aragorn? No. Clumsy, big, stupid. But his weapons, size, reach etc all lead him to better chances.

Same thing if you put the most technically skilled boxer in the world in the under 185 lb weight division against some averagely skilled guy in the 235lb and up class. Its gonna take that little guy a lot of running around to win on a technical result and he will probably never get a knockout or even a takedown. Thats all I think about how they do this.



Ive dreamed of a day when I could take Buhrdur, a troll Chieftan, or even Tom, and put them in charge of a warband of half trolls and one or two cave trolls and be like....heres my army. Lol.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

dark lord and balrog

Yeah, just my 0.02, but to me Fight value represents your likelihood of getting the upper hand in a fight (usually that's due to actual skill and training, but could be other factors which I'll address a little further on). Elves, a few select humans, and maybe various other misc. powerful/ancient creatures should get F 6+, but not really anyone else.




Yeah, that's power creep for you

Personally, rather than go back and make older models more powerful, I think they should just stat out newer models in keeping with their previous conventions and power levels. I think that, in isolation, the Hobbit profiles seem well balanced, thematically, against one another. It's just in the larger context of the game as a whole, when you throw in all of the stuff from LOTR, that they look overpowered, to me.

Also, I generally find "so-and-so beat so-and-so" to be a poor way of determining Fight values. More goes into than just that, and many characters who die don't necessarily die in a straight-up, one-on-one fight, but instead in the middle of a battle, often being outnumbered by many opponents. I mean, does anyone think that Lurtz should be such a powerful archer in the game that he could handily dispatch the likes of Boromir? Should Gandalf and Glorfindel be powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with a Balrog?


Definitely agree, Fight value isn't only about skill, but Bolg isn't as big and imposing as a troll, nor does he have the same reach. The overwhelming and imposing size of something like a troll (or a troll-sized shapeshifting bear) would make it very difficult to get the upper hand on even if you are a very skilled fighter, hence the high fight value. Bolg is nasty, big for an orc, certainly, but not to the point that I would give him an advantage on that alone.


Sure, but this game doesn't seek to capture that level of detail in individual combat. If I were playing a tabletop game about boxing, I would want that level of detail in the rules. The SBG rules really aren't about one-on-one fights; even though combat is resolved as man-to-man, it's streamlined for quick resolution, and the goal of the rules (IMO)
isn't to depict the discrepancies between two guys fighting, but rather to show how dynamic combat between two groups of fighters can be. Fighters need some kind of categorization, and Bolg is an orc, so, in my opinion, he should fall within the reasonable boundaries of what an orc can do (in a game that doesn't just offer the player orcs, but everything from hobbits to dragons). I think the stats GW gave him are way above and beyond what an orc, or even a human or elf, should be capable of in this set of rules.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Elrond, at 170pts, he needs more will and fight to actually be usefull and not just outclassed in combat and magic by much cheaper models, they have kind of recognised how bad he is by giving lindr his trusted counsellor rule but Elrond should be able to work on his own, not need anoth 60-80pts model to make him work.

I would bring back the old allied contigent rules from the old source books. I mean now you can bring aragorn, elendil isildur together and kick some a**es . The old rules were better, they prevented these "berserker" characters to play in the same game. But now you can mix every damn fig in the game with each other.

I disagree darthsys, I personally really like how open the game has got with alliances, it means that you can make really themed forces without having to worry about that can that ally thing... Lumping all harad umbar and far harad together is great fun and can allow some marvellous new lists

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I get annoyed when people say "axes need x and swords need y to show that they fought differently"

You're completely missing the point. Prior to special strikes the way a weapon flight was irrelevant two combatants rolled to see who won. The game wasnt saying that a sword handled like an axe or spear. A to wound roll or duel roll isn't concerned with the method, it's only the results.

Aragorn defeating a Uruk in FOTR and Gimli doing the same are accomplished by different styles of combat but the end result is the same, a dead Uruk. That's all the rolls represent

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