If you could change one character or rule............

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:47 am

Ok, so Im making this topic because clearly a lot in the game needs to be updated especially with the new hobbit models having all super sweet rules....looking at you Mirkwood Rangers.....

So tell me, if you could change a profile, or add one thing, or take something away, what would id be....?

For me.....I play Hunter Orcs a lot. I love them. Also, I play Isengard. And I have never seen such a terrible comparison profile of two figures as I have with Lurtz and Narzug......

Lurtz, should have Narzugs rule.......

Lurtz is 10 points more, and has 1 more fight, strength, and a shield. Valuable attributes, but not when compared.
Narzug has expert rider, and can be mounted....He also has a special ability exactly reminiscent of what Lurtz did to Boromir at the end of the FellowshipOTR. He may use a free single point of might each turn to affect his bow fire.

In addition, Lurtz has a rough comparison of stat lines with other Uruk leaders and no special rules....how does the evil leader who duels Aragorn in the ending battle of the movie, and kills one of the mightiest men in middle earth, have average stats.

If you dueled him one on one with any captain of men dwarves or elves he doesnt have a guaranteed win. I believe he should. He gave Aragorn a run for his money, and Aragorns weakest profile would dominate him.

As for a rule Id prefer if they added something rather than modify. Id like a heroic 'steady aim' rule where a hero uses a point of might, and every archer within 6" needs 1 less to hit on their roll for that turn. Thats all.

But if I had to modify a rule, Id change Bash to make it as long as you beat them in the fight, you can bash. No further rolls.

Im excited to hear what you guys have to say!

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:41 am

The bow limit rule. But there are already ways around that rule.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

What's wrong with the bow limit? Without it the game would be hideously dull; several armies that get to ignore/modify it are amongst the most dull builds to play against (Harad, Grey Company, mounted Rohan)

I don't particularly get the Lurtz hate, he's perfectly fairly costed just a bit dull, should he be more effective given his role in the film? Possibly. But you have to remember he came from a period of the game where it was unusual to have a special rule and certainty not the standard. There's also the oft-quoted argument that he only gives Aragorn a tough run at Amon-Hen because he was already knackered, imagine he's duelling Aragorn on 1 wound and when he's out of Might, Will and Fate.

As for rules changes, there's a fair few I'd tinker with (Alfrid!) but nothing that scream out to me, my biggest thing is that I would make a lot of the named Hobbit era heroes cheaper as several of them are vastly overpriced. As things stand Thror should be about 105, Thrain 115, Bard 100, Beorn around 170ish, Azog and Bolg abut 120-140, Gwaihir 115 etc. There's some truly great models with great profiles in the Hobbit release but many of them are just far too expensive to consider using in competitive points games.

Dezartfox · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:12 am

I thought lurtz too when I read the subject.

Has shield. Cannot use shield (except shielding rule) as he has a bow.

I'd of liked them to introduce new rules for thranduil and legolas rather than just copy and paste the old rules. Just given them a different title specific to their list.

Iluminatos13 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:39 am

I agree Lurtz should be at least a bit better than he is now. If he was the leader of the first, elite Uruk-Hai then how come he has the same point cost as the rest Uruk captains and maybe lamer abilities?

Dezartfox · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:51 am

I think Lurtz was probably hard and decent at one point, but then new shinier Uruks and characters have appeared.

I'm sure he used to have a special rule to do with his shield? Should totally be allowed to use it as a throwing weapon

Alex in Middle earth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:35 pm **Posts:** 41

Hmmm, that's a good question. I wouldn't change Lurtz because I don't think he's bad personally, I would just increase his points and stats to a "thrydan-like" level because I think isenguard could use an uruk hai hero in that points range. A character I would like to change would be Théoden, as for the king of Rohan I think he's pretty weak and overcosted. They wouldn't even need to change his profile they could just give him a 3 might, fate and will version, representing him at the Pellenor like Eomer.
And don't even get me started on Gondor and Numenor lol.

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:12 am

I do agree for theoden to be buffed but not as a warrior (like eomer) but more like a commander, he is a king after all. He needs something like count as a banner?

But i would surely change Faramir, add him a special rule for archery

pokyha · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:18 pm

So many awesome characters without special rules. Give Eomer or Theodred like free heroic move every turn or on a 4+ make Rohan way better. Theoden some comand/aura effect like a banner. Just make expert rider better.

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:22 pm

Actually i think the new Eomer profile fits him well, really good stats and str 5 on charging, he doesnt need anything more.

General Elessar · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:41 pm

I would abolish the "-1 penalty to shooting if you move" rule. But that's probably because I play Harad . . .

Goldman25 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:52 pm

Narzug has a special shooting rule? I guess that means that it's him who shot Kili before Bolg was put into that scene. I'd either give Lurtz a special rule, or Eowyn. Eowyn is just ridiculously weak compared to what she does in the books and films - defends the Glittering Caves from uruk-hai, and later decapitates a Fell Beast before slaying the Witch-King.

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:42 pm

I would bring back the Faramir captain of Ithilien profile. That was a sweet profile - imagine imrahil but applied to Minas Tirith.

BaronLee · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:17 pm

I would give Men of Numenor courage 4 and access to strength 3 bows. I also think Aragorn should be F7

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Dr Grant wrote:

What's wrong with the bow limit? Without it the game would be hideously dull; several armies that get to ignore/modify it are amongst the most dull builds to play against (Harad, Grey Company, mounted Rohan)

I don't particularly get the Lurtz hate, he's perfectly fairly costed just a bit dull, should he be more effective given his role in the film? Possibly. But you have to remember he came from a period of the game where it was unusual to have a special rule and certainty not the standard. There's also the oft-quoted argument that he only gives Aragorn a tough run at Amon-Hen because he was already knackered, imagine he's duelling Aragorn on 1 wound and when he's out of Might, Will and Fate.

As for rules changes, there's a fair few I'd tinker with (Alfrid!) but nothing that scream out to me, my biggest thing is that I would make a lot of the named Hobbit era heroes cheaper as several of them are vastly overpriced. As things stand Thror should be about 105, Thrain 115, Bard 100, Beorn around 170ish, Azog and Bolg abut 120-140, Gwaihir 115 etc. There's some truly great models with great profiles in the Hobbit release but many of them are just far too expensive to consider using in competitive points games.

Id have to agree with pretty much everything especially my beloved Bolg, Azog and Thror. But I dont think Lurtz profile represents him accurately. Yes, fairly costed......almost to me. But Like Alex in Middle earth he should be about 80-90 be tougher and have a good rule.

Claymore · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:55 pm

For me its got to be a more suitable profile for Theoden he is so lackluster its unreal, who reads/watches him then goes yeah he looks like a guy with no will. I don't think he should be a combat beast but more of a leader so 12'' inch stand fast, banner for rohirrim that sort of thing.

Sithious · **Posted:** Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:24 am

my first change;
In The Battle of Pelinor Fields chapterof Return of the King, the description of Eowyn as Dernhelm and the battle with the Black Captain, lord of shadow and despair... Well I think she should have a profile that is more befitting an actual very skilled and brave (well a bit suicidal if merry's thoughts served him true).

"Begone if you be not deathless. For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."

"Maiden of the Rohirrim, child of kings, slender as a steel blade, fair yet terrible. A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly."

Does this character sound like a thirty pointer half captain? Heck no. Merry may have kept her from being struck by the mace of the nazgul, but She was standing toe to toe where any other man would fall and his courage would fail him easily.

My second add would be to bring in Guthlaf as the banner bearer of Théoden. I know they had 'Gamling' in that role. But sine GW had the book rights too I think it would have been an excuse to make a new kings banner bearer and while at it they could make the bearer of the red arrow too. I think these side character give a little life in between the heroes and with the current way of assembling armies, I think a few more small heroes or named characters would not be such a bad thing. They went well out of their way to make fluff and names for people not in the book (probably to save some dough on royalties) but they didn't scour the book as well as they could have.

NarsilReforged · **Joined:** Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:13 am **Posts:** 316

BaronLee wrote:

I would give Men of Numenor courage 4 and access to strength 3 bows. I also think Aragorn should be F7

As for men of Numenor, yes I think they should cost more and be strength 4, have heavy armour and strength 3 bows. As for Aragorn I think fv6 is reasonable. His King Ellesar profile took a beating from a Mordor Troll Chieftain in the movie. Mordor Troll Chieftain is fv7 so he should be 6.

JamesR · **Posted:** Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:39 am

As I (and others have said before) no one needs a new profile then Theoden. His piece is terrible adds has no draw (beyond theme) whatsoever. He's absolutely terrible.
I do think he should have a bit more powerful profile, but added leadership abilities more than anything. Such as the profile I created here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28077&hilit=+Theoden

I know some people say OP for Theoden, but at pelenor he was impressive and as he fights Suladan in the books I wanted him to be able to match his foe

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:45 am

Claymore wrote:

For me its got to be a more suitable profile for Theoden he is so lackluster its unreal, who reads/watches him then goes yeah he looks like a guy with no will. I don't think he should be a combat beast but more of a leader so 12'' inch stand fast, banner for rohirrim that sort of thing.

Thats for sure. I also have this issue. Its a pain for me...because ive been wanting to buy a mounted Theoden on ebay for sooooo long.......but with his profile the way it is....I have no interested in spending $25 or more.

He needs to be the leader he was in the ROTK for Rohan and for men.

Sithious wrote:

my first change;
In The Battle of Pelinor Fields chapterof Return of the King, the description of Eowyn as Dernhelm and the battle with the Black Captain, lord of shadow and despair... Well I think she should have a profile that is more befitting an actual very skilled and brave (well a bit suicidal if merry's thoughts served him true).

"Begone if you be not deathless. For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."

"Maiden of the Rohirrim, child of kings, slender as a steel blade, fair yet terrible. A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly."

Does this character sound like a thirty pointer half captain? Heck no. Merry may have kept her from being struck by the mace of the nazgul, but She was standing toe to toe where any other man would fall and his courage would fail him easily.

Wonderful Sithious. These are the exact type of responses I was looking for.

I dont need a point value, but what kind of stat line would you give her and if any, a special rule? Id love to hear.

NarsilReforged wrote:

BaronLee wrote:

I would give Men of Numenor courage 4 and access to strength 3 bows. I also think Aragorn should be F7

As for men of Numenor, yes I think they should cost more and be strength 4, have heavy armour and strength 3 bows. As for Aragorn I think fv7 is reasonable. His King Ellesar profile took a beating from a Mordor Troll Chieftain in the movie. Mordor Troll Chieftain is fv7 so he should be 6.

Thats true.....but at the same time, he just came from a battle, and a long journey. The Chieftan was just sitting there and waiting, fresh from the Black Gate.

Im not totally disagreeing, but I think thats a good point many would debate.

JamesR wrote:

As I (and others have said before) no one needs a new profile then Theoden. His piece is terrible adds has no draw (beyond theme) whatsoever. He's absolutely terrible.
I do think he should have a bit more powerful profile, but added leadership abilities more than anything. Such as the profile I created here:

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php ... t=+Theoden

I know some people say OP for Theoden, but at pelenor he was impressive and as he fights Suladan in the books I wanted him to be able to match his foe

Thats not a bad profile....I looked at Prince Imrahil the other day(I didnt remember what your stat line was for him) and I said hmm........that looks good enough but needs less fate.

If you could change one character or rule............

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