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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:05 pm 
Elven Elder
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Werewolves are the worst units ever, but you get the general idea.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:27 pm 
Craftsman
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This is true but High Elf archers come a close second. It's silly that they put Werewolf's in as far as I'm aware there not very lore friendly and they are basically useless. GW clearly felt that Angmar needed more units (which they still do) and half thought up an idea which they thought would be cool and put it in, luckily with about 5 mins of thinking and some houserules you can make them a useable unit (which show you how much thought GW put in)

First they need Ambusher and as there classed as spirits Spirit Grasp would be good especially as there strength 5, add this to an increased defence of about 6 or 7 (I'd go 6) and reduce there costs to around 75 points and you have a fantastic, powerful but still fairly fragile amubushing unit.

Also Angmar really could do with more common and rare formations off the top of my head Trolls (why have Buhrdur who I believe is a troll chief/leader but not allow trolls) nice cheap Cave trolls would be great as a common choice, Wild Wargs and Warg Riders would also be good and lastly either Orc Trackers and Stalkers would fit an Angmar army nicely as well.
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
Elven Elder
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Werewolves should have Beserk, and to go up to 3 companies, defence and cost too. High Elf archers are also way too much as they shoot no better than Galadhrim. Werewolves were first mentioned in SBG in Dol Guldor, and do appear in the books, but they are poorly executed. Andmar should either folloew LoME Angmar and include Warg Packs, Cave Trolls and Druzhag, or copy Warbands SBG and include Warg Riders, Cave Trolls and Orc Trackers.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:45 pm 
Craftsman
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All elf archery is rubbish who would have thought, what with them the best archers in Middle earth according to Tolkien, what makes them so rubbish is Hobbit archers the cheapest archer in the game for the good side at least have a shoot value of +3 which is stupid as it is the same as 60 points (x4 the costs) High elves

Also Galadhrim Archer also aren't great either as wood elves are 5 points less (15 in the case of high elves) and have enchanted clocks which makes the basically immune to shooting and if a formation of archers comes into combat it's pretty much doomed anyway so it doesn't matter if their Defence 3,4 or 5, also the wood elves throwing weapons allow the to do a little bit more damage as well before they die.
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:09 pm 
Loremaster
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But they do have a higher fight value!

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Galadhrim don't and for High Elves is only +1 fight which isn't great as you get one extra die for each company that is in direct combat which is likely for archers to only be 2 or 3 extra die per combat and this isn't usable for the entire time they are shooting and not in combat which you would hope is the entire game
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:39 pm 
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That was sarcasm :) .

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:47 pm 
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:( as I Brit I feel I should have noticed, but my point still stands they are RUBBISH
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:49 pm 
Elven Elder
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ElfGeneral wrote:
:( as I Brit I feel I should have noticed, but my point still stands they are RUBBISH


Isn't that so.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Don't worry. You are totally right.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Have you considered the use of Riders of Rohan? Adds extra cavalry to the mix, fits in with Eomer, moves fine in open terrain, helps to deal with obnoxious enemies... the list goes on.

Also, (though it would change the theme) you could make use of a single formation of, say Khazad Guard (yes, I know they are elite dwarves, but hold on), instead of Eomer, bring Gimli (looks good in the theme department with Legolas), then use this formation as the anvil no one wants to fight, which forces them right into position for your elves to hammer them.

Also, if you want a worthy ally, I would advise Saruman, as the spells of Ruin are always a wonderful card to play.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Riders would provide great manouverablilty and I do love cavalry but they suffer the same problems as Elves poor defence at D5 so are really flimsy also if they don't there charge of they are a bit of a sitting duck :)

On the Saruman front he is most destuctive hero on the good side and would be an incredible aid to my elves but I am already planning on allying to Gandalf and either the Dwarves or Rohan on the 1750 point army I have they 25% is streched as it is.

The Dwarf + Gimli idea would work and I do love the theme of the army but again I have the issue of cost both for allies and Heroes.

I want to take Gandalf because his Blinding Light spell is incredible for elves (those 5 to 6 extra dice per fight really shifts the balance back in favour of the elves) but he cost 200 points and is an ally which only leaves 237 or so points for other allies. So continuing along that route if I take Dwarves Gimli cost another 175 points which only leaves me with 62 points to spend on dwarves troops which isn't even 2 companies of normal dwarf warriors let alone Khazad guard.

These problems are compounded by another problem the cost of heroes, I want to take Legolas the few times I've used him Swift Strike has been amazing and Epic Defence is great but he is over priced at 200 points add that to Gandalf who I need for the support role (trust me an elf army falls apart without him or Galadriel in it) and Gimli who is 175 points and I'm spending nearly 600 points on heroes in a 1750 game which seems like a lot.

Any ideas on how I could fix these problems?
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Don't use Gimli, you don't need him. Thranduil is a far better alternative (although that would mean missing out on Khazads, you could still take another, cheaper, alternative with the extra points Gimli frees up).

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:46 pm 
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The reason I was taking Gimli is for Epic Rage and Rampage which mixed with Gandalf's Epic Renewal and Counsellor would allow me to have a unit that was capable of cause massive amounts of damage for a couple of turns and as wood elves are only D3 anyway there would be no downside (I could also add Legolas if I needed to because of Swift Strike). Thranduil is amazing but not for what I want Gimli for I have used him in nearly every army list I have ever done, usually I use Galadriel, Thranduil, and the Twins with one of them having Blessing of Galadriel (+D3 might) and I want to try something different.
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:22 am 
Craftsman
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Then you could use my standby- being Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli, all packed into the same formation. With Gimli packing blessing of Galadriel.

However, if that is not what you are shooting for, I would bring Glorfindel and an eagle or two. Make the rest of your army as you normally do, then use the fliers (which Glorfindel counts as- go figure) and proceed to pull lots of rear charges. That, combined with terror from some five different directions, supplemented by the spells of dismay should result in a horde of extra attacks- just pick your charges carefully.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:09 pm 
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That is a very interesting strategy I have glorfindel and some eagles but it never occurred to me to do a sort of Elven RAF type army, I don't think I'll use it as my go to army but I'm definitely going to try it out soon I think it will be really fun but challenging to play
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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Challenging to play, yes. If used correctly, drive your opponents mad, yes. Best of luck with that, and let us know how it goes!

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:20 pm 
Elven Elder
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I wouldn't recommend anyone use Eagles, unles they are allies to a massive army of WoMT or similar.

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 Post subject: Re: An Elf army that can actually fight
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:54 pm 
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I agree that I have my worries about Eagles there defence is too low compared to the cost to be used extensively and I will never use this army list as my 'go to list' but I think the Eagles especially if one of them is Gwaihir combined with Glorfindel (who is also overpriced 250 points = WHAT! lucky my gaming group as house ruled his price down) could provide an interesting set of opportunities, no one will know you are going to use the list and will likely have no strategy to defend against it and will have to change there plans on the fly. Most elven armies including one of my list are bunker units and archers augmented by some magic a list tailored to deal with that army would struggle I think to deal with this army of flying monster. As I said before it will be a challenging army to use but a usable one all the same.
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