Not to derail the thread...but as read from the Rulebook

"Often a shooters view of the target's body will be obscured by another model or some other object that lies between the shooter and the target. The model or object is in the way of the shot. Remember that for 'body' we mean a model's torso, limbs and head, but we exclude it's tail and all equipment."

Body = Golden King's torso, etc on the raised chair.

Equipment = Chair...below the body.

As the body is the only part which can be obscured, and it is so high compared to other models, it is very unlikely that the body will be blocked, granting an 'in the way' roll. Instead it will be the equipment, which the rulebook states does not grant an 'in the way' roll if obscured.

Thank You.

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

The model of Golden King is the target.
Target includes the king and 2 men below him.
If the body of any of the 2 men below is obscured, you get an in the way. This particular model has effectively 3 bodies and they get removed together once 4 wounds are caused.

Otherwise, following your logic, you would often be unable to get an in the way for a cavalry model behind a rank of foot troops. Which in truth you can. You would also not be able to ever get in the ways when shooting at a Witch King on Fell Beast.

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

You may have a point as it states the bearers are counted as part of the model, although...the King himself would not get in the way rolls easily. I may be wrong, I was honestly just agreeing with what The Horde Lord had said earlier.

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

That's cool, I'm not shouting or anything, I just used capitals to highlight instead of bolding Here, I edited so that it doesn't seem to anyone that I'm being rude.

It is logical that you'd be shooting at the top dude, same as you would be aiming at the rider on the top of a horse, but in the game terms it is the whole model that counts as the Golden King, just like a horse is part of the cavalry model and has its own 2nd body.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Yeah, when I said hide, I meant make people unable to draw LOS.

In truth, Harad isn't overpowered, if any single faction is overpowered (from a gaming perspective), I guess it would be Mordor.

I agree with The Horde Lord, IMO, Mordor is the most overpowered (although I think the game is quite balanced), especially when you compare it to Angmar.

The only reason Harad is allowed to have 50% bow limit is because the boxes have 6 bows and 6 spears - it just means it easier to sell, rather than getting twice as many boxes to use 6 archers.

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C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/

Mordor is not the most overpowered list in SBG, all it has overpowered are Black Numenoreans and some Ringwraiths. I think you will find Elves and Dwarves are much more overpiwered than Mordor in SBG, virtually all the core Elven and Dwarven Warriors (and some Heroes) are too cheap.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

If you can find one scrap of evidence that justifies them being Fight Value and Strength 4, let alone having two attacks I'm all ears. GW purposefully overpowered them to sell more metal miniatures.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Hear, hear.

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

It's about overpowered factions, or most powerfull f you like, not factions that have the most underpriced units. Both elves and dwarves will suffer in the numbers department, which is bad itself, since . In addition, dwarves are extremly slow (5" and no cavalry), have no spears and have no real magic or particularly beneficial special rules such as for instance, the Nahzgul have. Elves on the other hand suffer form avarage defence, coupled with a high price tag and expensive heroes.

Of course all factions has their weaknesses and their strengths, and most of them can be worked around and all of them can be made up for with alliances.

I did not misunderstand you, i just do not think that the Mordor lisy as a whole is as overpowered as an Elf or Dwarf list as a whole. If all their core Warriors are too cheap (too cheap differs from cheap eg a Rohan Warrior is cheap, a Dwarf warrior is too cheap) then they are more overpowered.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

By my calculations (based on a warrior with a Warrior of Rohan profile and no armour being 5 points, and every stat boost save Attack and Wounds being 1 point each) then Dwarves should be 9 points, and High Elves should be 11/12. That's before any equipment or anything. Funny thing is, with Fight value not mattering too much and 8 point Morannon Orc will generally be much better. In all the battles I've had against Elves, they rarely wound if they win and almost always die if they lose.

A boost in strength is much more effective than a boost in fight value.

Going by this logic, several Haradrim troops are underpriced:

-Harad Warriors are identical to Rohan archers in every respect, but have the poison special rule and the ability to be fielded en-masse

-Corsairs should be 1 more point (5 base +1 fv +2 for throwing daggers =8)

-Watchers of Karna apparently pay nothing for three pretty good special rules

-Abrakhan Merchant Guard should cost at least 2 more points (5 base +1 fv +1 strength +1 defence +1 for 2-hander +1/2 for awesome special rule)

-Black Numenoreans should be another 2 points (5 base +1 fv +3 defence (ha & shield) +1 courage +1 for terror)

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Going by the standard 1 point per stat logic every warrior in the game is undercosted. A goblin should cost 7 or 13 points, depending on wether you start at 1 or 0. Also, like LH said, not all upgrades are equally good. upgrading your courage from 2 to 3 is considerably more valuable than upgrading it from 4 to 5. Upgrading your defence from 3 to 4 is (at least for evil) considerably better than upgrading it from 4 to 5 since most good troops are strenght 3 and the bows are about half and half.

I don't start from 1 though. This profile:

F/Sh S D A W C
3/4+ 3 3 1 1 3

Is worth 5 points, and I go from there. Goblins are perfectly costed then, as their slower movement is negated by their ability to ignore terrain. Shoot value is generally not a factor.

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Yes, I too start at that one, but that give the cheaper units an advantage because this profile pays five points for 14 or 8 "statpoints" When you keep adding on stat increaes, the more expensive profiles end up paying more points per upgrade than the cheaper profiles. For instance an unarmed dwarf costs 100% more than an unarmed goblin. His fight and courage are both 100% higher, but his defence is only 50% higher, and all the other stats are (basicly) the same.

All the top GT players would disagree. Also, you seem to be giving the impression that Elves are not very good... yet they've been the most common army at the GT for years.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Elves are bleeding good.

Your logic with the BNs, Watchers, Corsairs, Abrakhan guard are correct. Though Watchers also get their stats too cheap as well as the rules for free. They should cost more, but they are not Haradrim Warriors. Also, you missed the worst ones, Corsair Reavers.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Whats so bad about Reavers?

They gain 1 increase in defence, 2 in fight and an attack...adds up to their points cost if you ask me.

Watchers however...they gain 1 in defence, fight, shoot and attack, and 3 special rules. That should may their total cost at least 12, but they cost less than the Reaver.

Black Numenoreans gain 3 in defence, a fight, a courage and a special rule. Should be about 12 aswell.

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

There isn't any difference between underpriced and overpowered, they are one and the same. Elves and Dwarves are by far the most overpowered factions, because they are underpriced.

Highlordell, all of the dwarves should also cost and extra point and the elves should cost 2 more. Also the Reavers lose throwing weapons, effectively reducing what they should cost by 2. If they had throwing weapons, they'd be worth taking.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Also, the Reavers only get 1 increase to fight.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.