As title really I've just watched The Fellowship (again) and once again I was bowled over by the sheer epicness of the Nazgul, like they were so ancient/evil/powerful what have you it just seemed like nothing could stop 'em.

Now... that has got me thinking really, since I'm such a fan of the Ringwraiths - how viable are they as a single army? And at what points level in SBG? Should I use the named Nazgul? Or the generic ones? - feel free to post up tactics, army lists etc etc, I want to know everything about the use of the Nazgul that you know, as well as your thoughts on a full nazgul list.

Cheers.

I was planning to do the nine named nazgul in an army- im 8/9 of the way there!
I think the named nazgul would be more fun due to their special rules and the fact you may get muddled between the generic wraiths, wouldn't of thought it would be the best army to be honest, it would cost so much. Over 1000pts for named and around 700+ for generic ones depending how much m/w/f you gave them.
Think they would just be really fun to play with though, especially if all were on fellbeasts!

As an army they don't say too much because of their low combat, they are strong alltogether but they would fall against many numbers... But I am also collecting them(my favourite evil)

Hmm, they do have a certain...charm about them that's for sure

Generally I fight against Gondor for SBG :-/ Usually a shield wall of some kind - I dunno, there's a part of me which reckons it could take a shield wall with a Nazgul army, provided I had a mix of Will Nazgul, fighty nazgul and so on.

Honestly though I dunno what points level they'd be best at - at 300 you could get around...4-6 at a real push, all on horse-back, but they'd have absoloutely no upgrades, all be generic, and wouldn't really pack a punch in any particular area, save perhaps magic, and then they're running on borrowed time untill their will runs out (assuming also they're not shot) - at 500 you might be able to get the same amount, some mounted on fell beasts, kitted out for combat, and others again on horseback, kitted out for magic - maybe if you're lucky the witch king/Khamul/Dark Marshal/Knight of Umbar.

The only problem is again the numbers - 4-6 Nazgul, no matter how much they're kitted out, are just still 4-6 nazgul - I'll just have a look for some articles to see what's what for Nazgul tactics.

I suppose the way you'd offset that is by forcing the enemy to come to you, either by compel, or by tempting them to charge/march toward you - although I think if I was facing a ringwraith on fell beast I'd either shoot it or failing that attack in close combat with over-whelming numbers.

The logic part of me says to take a RW, and tailor build a warband around each one. Then simply mix and match warbands to the point costs your going to play at. If you need a 2,000 point army to field all 9... Well, thats what it would take to have a well balanced wraith army unfortunatly =/

There's a guy who takes a RW army to the GT (600/700pts) every year and he does extremely well with them. It's an army you really have to know inside out to get the most out of them.

Sorry, but after the new army books and so on I'm unsure of the new developments surrounding the armies and any special rules and so on (e.g warbands) - all I'm using is the paper-back rules and the (old) Mordor Sourcebook, so I dunno what you mean by warbands



So presumably we're talking about that kind of points level then surely?... Is he on this site so I can have a word with him?

EDIT: Tell you what, I'll make a quick list of maybe 3-600pts (whats the going rate after 300 anyway? - 500,6 or 700?

Right, a quick list for us to chew over.

Nazgul List - 600pts

Knight of Umbar - Fell Beast - 170

Ringwraith - full M/W/F, Fell Beast - 160

Ringwraith - 6 extra W, 1 extra F, Dark Steed - 100

Ringwraith - 7 extra W, 1 extra F, Dark Steed - 105

Ringwraith - Dark Steed - 65

Any thoughts on that?
The basic idea is that the 3 Wraiths on Horseback are there to support the 2 on fell beast via magic, whilst the 2 on fell beast are there to take on small segments of the enemy and kill 'em in close combat.

To that end, the Knight of Umbar is there because of his ability to mimic enemy statistics (such as F value in the case of captains, or possibly attacks - speaking of which, could he mimic the attacks, and then use the fell beast strenght?) and his ability to potentially hang around for much longer provided he wins his fights.

The other Wraith on Fell Beast is there to support the KoU in his combats, and generally prevent him from being over-whelmed - the basic idea I've got is that the Knight initially concentrates on enemy captains, banners etc, whilst the other wraith concentrates on the rank and file, once the knights' task is accomplished, he then turns on the regular joe enemys too.

The wraiths on horseback are there to either transfix, compel or black dart key enemies into submission, they will generally stay out of harms reach (at least from sword or spears) and will use their magic from a relatively safe distance.

Compel also probably deserves a special note - remember I said about the fell beasts picking off small segments of the enemy army? Well what if I used all the wraiths to compel a chunk of 5 guys out of the main battle-line (my friend only ever does shield walls, usually 1 big one, although occassionally 2 small ones), then charge in with the fell beasts and churn 'em up - reckon that would work?

Any thoughts on numbers, point values, tactics and so on, I'd be very appreciated

Don't think deathandglory or Ed, comes here, but he takes them all on fellbeast for hitting power and speed. They work as a group pulling major heroes out of the line and killing them in one turn regardless of who he is. They then have Might superiority and just wipe you out. The only difficulty he has is when facing elves and their high Fight score and if the enemy army and scenario pairing put him at a dissadvantage.

All Nazgul on fellbeast army was on table 2 for the final battle at today's LOTR GT so what ever that tells you....

Thanks for the replies everyone But what do you think about the list and tactics I've posted?

No good, they all need to be on RW to be able to kill models, get into the right positions and to get out of trouble when surrounded.

Right, so we're looking at a full fellbeast army then? I'll make changes when I get the chance

There is one guy at my country than now plays at our guild tournament with a full fell-beast army
You can get 6 normal Ringwraiths with Fellbeasts/4 with maximum(Witch King must be one of them to fill the points ) at an 700 points army...

I know this is a really silly question but if you were to take a Nazgul on Fell beast, does the nazgul lose a point of will if it is in combat that turn? I would assume that the fell beast is the one that does the fighting as it is a monsterous mount but I have never been to sure about it.

The Last Alliance's Death And Glory just won the UKGT with a 4-Nazgul on Fell Beast army last weekend.

During the tournament he got a Major Win in Domination against a 60 model Gondor/Dwarf force.

They are very much viable. However it is not advisable to use that army unless you're a master such as he is. You will simply get destroyed if you don't know how to use them


You lose a Will point because the wraith is in combat. The Beast is just part of his equipment.

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Thanks for the reply=)
It is a very specific army and I am pretty much a beginner but I have always loved the idea of an all nazgul force. After a few minutes thinking a quick 1000pt list I came up with (Rumours of the new point limit?)

Witch King (2 might 12 will 2 fate)
Shadow Lord
Undying
Dark Marshall
Khamul the Easterling
The Tainted

All on Fell beast is exactly 1000. The thing that I find amazing about how these armies operate is you only have certain amount of will points. This one posted has 82. When those are over that's it. You are probably looking at using a magic power every turn or at least every other turn so you have to be really skilled at selecting when to attack.
My hat goes off to this Nazgul master

Thank you all very much for the replies! I'm going to make a Fell Beast list in a moment, so I'll post it up.

Oh by the way, do you think it'd be better to go for any of the named wraiths (Witch King and Khamul included) or no named wraiths at 600?

Cheers.

EDIT: OK the new list

Witch King of Angmar - Crown of Morgul, Fell Beast, 2 extra M/W/F - 180

Ringwraith - Fell Beast, Full M/F, 3 Extra W - 140

Ringwraith - Fell Beast, Full M/F, 3 Extra W - 140

Ringwraith - Fell Beast, Full M/F, 3 Extra W - 140

Total = 600 dead.

Any thoughts? I'm unsure of the W levels on the wraiths to be honest... Do you think it'd be better taking off a M/F point on the unamed wraiths and using it to buff the Will by 2 points?, so that in total they'd have 1M & F and 12 W? Also what do you think of the Witch King? 180 is pretty pricey, and for 10pts less I could get any of the other named wraiths on a fell beast but on the upside, it's the witch king, with 3 attacks at the strength of a fell beast, and he's pretty damn cool to boot - so yup, feel free to suggest alternatives.

Also, just to run by a basic battle plan - use compel to bring out key enemy leaders, banners etc then attack with 2-3 fell beasts to make absoloutely sure the thing dies, using the remaining beasts as a deterrant from charging in (if the fear factor doesn't do that already). I'm a little stuck after that to be honest... what should I do about troops? I mean I don't have the will to compel them all to their doom, neither do I have the will to attack them all individually and bring about their doom... should I be trying to break off small chunks of the enemy army, and destroy them individually? If so how do I achieve this? tempting them to charge? - the friends I do play against use Gondor & Moria - I don't play the Moria army often enough to know the Goblin players style, but I do know for certain that the Gondor player often uses either 1 big shield wall, or 2-3 smaller ones, usually with Rangers in there too - which will obviously prove to be a head-ache for the Fell beasts... any suggestions for dealing with them.

Cheers.

I'd also love to hear about Death&Glory's games at the GT.

As for the lists, I guess the WK will attract all the bowfire so i'd personally take at least one more named wraith to make it harder for your opponent to decide. That indecision might make the difference between a win and a loss!

The undying seems great value for money with 20 will points. The KoU and Dark Marshall and Shadowlord have some brilliant special rules, the latter will increase your chances of getting all 4 on fellbeast into combat.

As hithero mention, dispatching enemy heroes first should be the prime target. So you could EITHER compel them out into the open or black dart from a distance. Don't waste magical powers on enemy warriors, just heroes. Your entire army will cause Terror remember so bold moves to get your wraiths into combat will be to your benefit. I wouldn't leave them out in the open, once a ringwraith is unseated, you will lose roughly a quarter of your attacking potential so avoid enemy bowfire where possible. Certainly looks fun to play with though! I've used a Troll Cheiftain before and he's taken out enemy heroes before in a heroic combat, imagine what 4 RW on fellbeast can do especially if one or all call a heroic combat (not advisable for all of them). Test them out and see how you find each one.

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The Shadow-Lord does seem to make the most sense to nullify bow-fire, which in massed numbers will be the death of my list - the only problem is that to upgrade one of the generic wraiths to him, I'll need to find an extra 30pts - which really is going to come from the M/W/F reserves. If I drop the M & F on the 2 generic wraiths down to 1pt each, that means I've already scrounged back 20pts - I could do the same on the Witch King's M & F (so that he also has only 1 M & F) to get the extra 10pts, and therefore the Shadow Lord.

Revised list

Witch King of Angmar - Crown of Morgul, Fell Beast, 2 extra W, 1 extra M/F - 170

The Shadow Lord- Fell Beast - 170

Ringwraith - Fell Beast, 1 extra M/F, 3 Extra W - 130

Ringwraith - Fell Beast, 1 extra M/F, 3 Extra W - 130

Total = 600 dead.


There is just a quick question I have regarding his special ability though - if the models have to be within 6' to gain the effect of his ability, does the whole base have to be within 6' Or would it just have to touch the 6' ring, or would over half of it have to be within this area? It just seems a tad unrealistic and unfair if the whole beast can be obscured due to a teensy part of it's base falling within the shadow lord's 6' circle.

Thanks for your tactical advice - I wasn't planning on using any magical power after I've dispatched the enemy characters and banners. And as it happens I have thought of a way to try and kill the rest of the enemy force without having to lure them out peice by peice (which I honestly don't think my friend/gondorian enemy would fall for, certainly not twice anyway), so you may as well review it.

It's simple really, either A) Send all 4 Wraiths round 1 flank and the rear, and proceed to charge them all in, engaging multiple enemies, and forcing the guys on the other side of the shield wall to move to the threatened side (there is potential here for the feigned attacks too) or B) Send 2 Wraiths round to each flank/rear, resulting in hopefully the same effect from guys in the centre.

My only concern with both tactics is that we're still only talking 3 attacks (Wraith & Fell Beast), and against a swarm of men or goblins that can be beaten by sheer weight of numbers (provided you pass your courage tests, at -1 courage in the case of good). I'll have to read up on knock-down attacks too - EDIT: Just checked the knock down and extra attack rules... *cackles with glee* those wraiths would have more attacks than I thought they would... we're talking 3 attacks (2 from beast, extra attack for cavalry) at a Wraith's F value of 5 (better than everything except named characters, elf warriors, and named elves and dwarves) with the beasts str, which double if the beast knocks them over lol - and this is the generic wraiths, on the Witch King himself you'd have 4, again with all the above - take that rangers! Just checked the charge section too, so I'm good to go for attacking stuff that's in base to base contact - I know my friend would try and weasel out of it in some way...

Any thoughts on the above revised list and proposed tactics?

Thanks.