He does not eat heroes alive like Cave Drakes, but the watcher does the rest, also, like Gulavhar, if his Wounds decrease so do his attacks, but unlike Gully, the Watcher cannot regain them. His pts cost is equal to 50 goblins with shields.

Also, GW have revealed more info on the Dweller in the Dark on their website; the fight value is the same as a Mordor Troll. So that plus regeneration suggests they atre extremely overpowered.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

the watcher? A vanilla dragon

Figure of speech mate.

I used to say 'eat' whenever a Warg or Spider killed a moel, but I changed terminology with the release of the Cave Dake.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

he's 250 look at GW getting started moria

You are not supposed to say there actuual pts too much though, but I obn't think it is ilegal. (posting their stats is illegal though)

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

If its a points value or statline taken from White Dwarf or the GW website then theres nothing wrong with posting it here, surely.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
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I still think its stupid posting up any stats what so ever.. or even comparing it to other models.. Gamesworkshop did give us stats for stuff without the points cost(http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16149) but with what you guys are going you may aswell just find the points values of everything and just comparing it to orcs(everyone knows there points value). Or do something ridiculous like this for every model:

"Hi guys this is my new house rule that im making its a elf super warrior i hope you guys like it!
Elf super warrior:

F:35/21+ S:21 D:21 A:7 W:7 C:35 Points value:49

Special rule:
Woodish thing:
Can walk through woodland difficult terrain.

So yeah its pretty cooll huh..."

Then my next post repling to someone else:

"Oo ok we can't tell you the stats for elf warriors on this site but i can compare it to something for you.. Just look at my Elf super warrior profile that i made up and divide all the stats by the points cost of a normal Elf warrior then you get a normal elf warrior stats"

Ok seriously if anyone ever does this then thats just stupid.. Also if you can't figure out the stats for an elf warrior from what i said above then ur stupid.. So yeah i think i made my point. Even tho im prob going to get some bs reply to this like "BUT BUT NO!!! What you said is STUPID thats SO different to what we are actually doing!!."

EDIT: yes GothmogtheWerewolf i think putting up points values is illegal otherwise if it wasn't we would already have all the stats and points costs for every single model in every single sourcebook.

EDIT #2: Ok now that i think about it point values might not be illegal as in every single thread in the Army Help section is pretty much giving away point values you just get the number that the person wrote then divide it by the number of units then you get the point value... Thats actually prettyy stupid... wtf's the point in buying sourcebooks if you can just do that?

Generally the point of getting sourcebooks is so that you have a handy book with you that you can easily reference the stats and points for everything in your force and compare different options. Sure you may be able to weasel out a points cost of a unit but you still need to know what wargear it has, what it has the option of buying, its complete stats (sometimes these are available through comparisons, mostly they tend to only be about half of their stat line) and any special rules (particularly specific wording of new ones). So sometimes you'll manage to find all these things online about something (generally a warrior or cheap hero), but it's a fair bit of hassle and you'll still need to compile everything somehow anyway. I actually feel sympathetic towards those that are missing the stats of one or two units for their army. GW are primarily a miniatures company rather than a rules, so if someone finds a way round their separation of stats but ends up buying a $90 model because of it, then they won't be too put out. Not that I'm endorsing spreading rules for free, but trying to crack down on it is pretty futile given the number of forums that let slip something here and there and various pdfs and such.

Anyway, sourcebooks aren't just stats and nothing else. There's many more reasons to buy them.

I'm wondering if anyone has had a peek in a book yet...But, anyone up for some rampant speculation? I was curious on whether Elladan and Elrohir count as two heroes for the purposes of warband-ing your troops. What do you guys think?

Ok all i can say is this:
http://www.lonelyknight.0fees.net/
+
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16149
+
Knowledge of all basic wargear or this: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/kb.php?a=60
=
No point in buying sourcebooks for stats.

Im not saying people should take these down im just saying people need to stop asking for stats because there a cheap guy and/or because there lazy 2 to find it out themselves.

In general I agree with you, and once these sourcebooks come out, it'll go back to that way (in that I'll feel people should stop asking others and go find the book). The problem has been that all GW's newest releases have been purely WD. Some have gone online and so repeating that information rather than sending them to the link isn't terrible (though I think the link is the proper thing to do). Others have been purely in the magazine and impossible to get a hold of if you missed it. With these sourcebooks we'll all once more be able to say "the stats for such and such are in the Mordor book".

On page 5 of the new books (the first 15 pages of each book are the same) Elladan and Elohir are treated as a pair but one must be chosen as the warband leader and the other becomes a follower.

This whole change in rules is just a means to give Games Workshop an excuse to charge more extortionately for figures. Forgive me for being cynical here but, five years ago when I started this hobby if you told me that a pack of four miniatures (Ie the command packs) would cost me £24 I'd have taken up skiing instead and it would still have cost me less. Remember when you could buy a pack of 24 plastic warriors for 15 quid?? So now it's £24 for a captain and £13.50 for a some warriors and that's just one warband! Obviously inflation has to be taken into consideration in the rise in some prices. This war band stuff hasn't been done to improve the game it's a strategy to line the pockets of GW!

Anyway begrudgingly I'll go along with it because it's a hobby I love but I'm very frustrated and I have lost a lot of respect for games workshop.

Whaaaat?! A for profit company is charging us...MONEY?! OH NO.

More seriously though, I think it makes the game cheaper, because so many points are tied up in heroes; which while more expensive per model, they are still cheaper for their points.

Not to take it out on you personally, but I'm tired of hearing that in defense of GW. No one is upset that GW is making profits, were upset because their [word deleted] down our necks and calling it Rain.

Cutting the boxes inhalf, is a price increase, on the same models they have already made and paid for the design of. Taking all of the scattered rules and putting them together into 5 books, is a price increase. They could have easily been done in one book. Gw used to do that, they were called chronicles and anthologies.

It'd be like if chevy announced that the 2014 Mustang was going to be only the front half of the 2013 model, and for a price cut of almost %10! yay! how grateful we all should be to run out and get half a car.

No, GW is full of it, and they are taking advantage of us at this point. I don't buy from them anymore. This relaunched killed the hobby for me.

I've got a Rohan army that's unplayable without a butload of their crappy fincast garbage. Not happening. So instead of continuing to build up my Rohan and start that isenguard army I was planning, I'm not buying anything from them.

Good move GW lost another customer to make a quick short term buck.

That said, I really dislike the WArbands rule. it makes the game about your heros and not your soldiers. that might be great every once in a while, but Aragorn vs the witch king gets old quick, and I'm not looking forward to 5-6 years of it in almost every game.

I'm annoyed with these Warband rules and the independent character rule, which makes my army difficult to use and form without making sacrifices (my Dragon Knight, which I love) and has made certain lists I'd built up unplayable and useless. The Morgul Easterling list I'd built up has become somewhat hard to field, though I'm kind off glad there was a new Lord of the Rings release, even in spite of Miscast and Fail Bands.

Nothing to prevent you from playing the LOME way. I thought I'd prefer it too, but I have enjoyed the warband way. For one, it's a lot quicker to build up armies because you spend less time fiddling.

Another thing I've noticed with building warband armies is there is less tendency to drop equipment and elites to squeeze in "one more warrior". If you still have a few points to spent, but not enough to start a new warband with a decent hero, it's easier to buff to elites, add equipment, or toss in a minor hero.

1) what part of your rohan army was ruined? And for needing finecast, the only charecter you can only obtain in finecase is the huntsman, and I don't really consider him to be a requirement...

2) Games are more hero heavy, yes, but it rarely comes down to who can buy the most expensive hero. There is nothing stopping you from fielding Aragorn and 12 rangers or whatever, but a smart hero who fields capitains and has the might as well as the numbers advantage will most likely win. It's not as cut and dry as you think. Give it a chance my friend.

3) Don't want GW to see your cash? Ebay. Don't let someone else ruin your hobby.

If you want to use new models, just make up which LoME army they belong to and incorparate pts value and stat changes.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.