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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:27 am 
Elven Warrior
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Yes, I do judge models for their appearance relative to the films. As the GW range is based on the films, if a model doesn't particularly flow with PJ and Weta's vision, and therefore the other figures in the GW range, its major points off with me. I would like to be able to imagine the model in a 'deleted scene' or another film. Furthermore, I judge a model for its realistic probability--I consider LotR just about as realistic as it gets for fantasy, so if a model doesn't make realistic sense (even if its not realistic to begin with, if that makes sense), then that's more points off. I also, and this is likely the most important, judge models based just on their visual appeal, which is the most subjective. For example--the Gundabad Blackshield Goblins are very "Middle-earthy" and, perhaps with a darker paintjob, could fit easily into the films' Middle-earth. Disregarding the drum, there's nothing too outlandish about the models either. But I think they look awful. Just plain awful. Good concept, poor execution.The Dwarf range, on the other hand, which was almost completely imagined, is really quite great I think.
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:01 am 
Elven Warrior
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That Great beast Rhino thing is awesome!!!

The watcher in the water is too. I like how they have given it a body and legs so it can actually walk on the battle field now. Its no longer just a nasty octopus its a CREEPY OCTOPUS CRAB LOBSTER!!! Awesome.

I like the Warg riding goblin trio. Very funny.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:23 am 
Elven Warrior
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samoht wrote:
That Great beast Rhino thing is awesome!!!

The watcher in the water is too. I like how they have given it a body and legs so it can actually walk on the battle field now. Its no longer just a nasty octopus its a CREEPY OCTOPUS CRAB LOBSTER!!! Awesome.

I like the Warg riding goblin trio. Very funny.



I dont like it, i look at him and he looks like hes not from the LOTR...and those orcs on top of him i dont like them either :x

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:35 am 
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Jamros wrote:
Telchar wrote:
On some of the pics, the Watcher has this weird sloping back, while on others it is round. Which is correct?!?

If you go to the GW website, you can see a 360 view of the model. It's difficult to explain, but the model as a whole looks very awkward.
Here's a link straight to the Watcher: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat750002a&prodId=prod1460123a


Thanks!

It's probably got a rather round back for most of the mini, but I looks angular when seen from the left because it's twisting its body in some wierd way (probably making a corner).

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:59 am 
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Jamros wrote:
Yes, I do judge models for their appearance relative to the films. As the GW range is based on the films, if a model doesn't particularly flow with PJ and Weta's vision, and therefore the other figures in the GW range, its major points off with me. I would like to be able to imagine the model in a 'deleted scene' or another film. Furthermore, I judge a model for its realistic probability--I consider LotR just about as realistic as it gets for fantasy, so if a model doesn't make realistic sense (even if its not realistic to begin with, if that makes sense), then that's more points off. I also, and this is likely the most important, judge models based just on their visual appeal, which is the most subjective. For example--the Gundabad Blackshield Goblins are very "Middle-earthy" and, perhaps with a darker paintjob, could fit easily into the films' Middle-earth. Disregarding the drum, there's nothing too outlandish about the models either. But I think they look awful. Just plain awful. Good concept, poor execution.The Dwarf range, on the other hand, which was almost completely imagined, is really quite great I think.


I agree with this wholeheartedly.
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Jamros wrote:
Yes, I do judge models for their appearance relative to the films. As the GW range is based on the films, if a model doesn't particularly flow with PJ and Weta's vision, and therefore the other figures in the GW range, its major points off with me. I would like to be able to imagine the model in a 'deleted scene' or another film. Furthermore, I judge a model for its realistic probability--I consider LotR just about as realistic as it gets for fantasy, so if a model doesn't make realistic sense (even if its not realistic to begin with, if that makes sense), then that's more points off. I also, and this is likely the most important, judge models based just on their visual appeal, which is the most subjective. For example--the Gundabad Blackshield Goblins are very "Middle-earthy" and, perhaps with a darker paintjob, could fit easily into the films' Middle-earth. Disregarding the drum, there's nothing too outlandish about the models either. But I think they look awful. Just plain awful. Good concept, poor execution.The Dwarf range, on the other hand, which was almost completely imagined, is really quite great I think.

Couldn't have said that any better...well put mate! :)

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:49 pm 
Elven Elder
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Necromancer7 wrote:
I usually criticise models for being generally poor (like a number of these new ones), but the ones I don't label as befitting of Middle-earth are usually because they seem to represent generic fantasy units that don't intrinsically evoke The Lord of the Rings. That is, you wouldn't look at them on their own and immediately think that they come from Middle-earth.

Having said that, it only really seems to apply to the more outlandish models. Looking at the Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth on my paint station here would possibly have the same problem, even though I think they fit nicely. It's a hard one.

The films certainly are a yard stick; perhaps not the only one but a very important one with which to judge GW's offerings. This might not be so essential if this system wasn't established around the films, but it is and so that factor dominates.
The Great Beast, for instance, is a model we see in the films. I think it sucks though, because it is being used in a manner contradictory (maybe not the right word) to that in which it was employed in The Return of the King. It's described by Tolkien as pulling Grond, it's shown in the film as pulling Grond, it's released by GW carrying Orcs. That doesn't line up for me.

To be honest though, I don't think many of these new models are particularly bad for not belonging in Middle-earth; certainly not so much as, say, Gulavhar.


It's not like they're ever going to release Grond. As quite a few people have said, the monster looks great, the rules sound like they'll be great, and I would rather have it carrying orcs than it not be released. If it was plastic (thus cheaper) I would actually buy it.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:54 am 
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If men are able to put a bloody howdah ontop of a gigantic mumak then I dont see how it isn't possible for orcs with help of Sauron's cruel methods to put a howdah on a rhino. I feel if the rhino didnt have any orcs on it, it would just be a wild beast and not fit in in an army.

Btw I believe that in the hobbit the goblins will be redesigned. I dont know how much to an extent but I think I read that somewhere...
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:55 am 
Elven Warrior
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The Armies of Middle-earth:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:17 pm 
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werner wrote:

Am I reading that right? You can only take a maximum of 12 infantry or 8 cavalry per hero in your force?

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:28 pm 
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It seems that it is 12 of any regular warrior, mounted or not.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:28 pm 
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werner wrote:


There are some quite interesting new facts we can gather from looking at the book excerpts: for instance, Saruman's Palantír no longer lets him cast spells anywhere on the board, but lets him auto-win priority once a game. I think this is a good thing, as immobilizing any hero anywhere on a 2+ was kinda cheesy after all. :)

I also like the new scenarios, though I'm not sure how the Last Alliance one will play out... Gil-galad, Elrond, Elendil, Isildur, and 700p. of troops vs. Sauron and 1200p. of troops may sound balanced at first, but with the cheapness of immobilizing Ringwraiths I fear the Good side could be at a disadvantage. We'll see how it plays out :)

I must say I haven't been this excited about LotR in a loooong time!

ukfreddybear wrote:
Am I reading that right? You can only take a maximum of 12 infantry or 8 cavalry per hero in your force?


No, I'm pretty sure it's 12 regardless of type, and that the 8 riders example is just to show that you can take anywhere between 0 and 12 models per warband. At least that's how I read it.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Most important to me...
ONLY ONE NAMED HERO!!! :shock: :o :aragorn:
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Hilbert wrote:
Most important to me...
ONLY ONE NAMED HERO!!! :shock: :o :aragorn:


Only one of each Named Hero! So no two Aragorns or 5 Gimlis in the army, that's what he meant. It's always been like that. He wasn't saying you could only have one Named Hero and no other. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Uh, now I calmed down :oops: Thank you very much 8)
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Zogash wrote:
Saruman's Palantír no longer lets him cast spells anywhere on the board, but lets him auto-win priority once a game.


I only play SBG, but have always played to that rule anyway as per the one rulebook. In what rulebook does it say he can cast anywhere on the board?

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:55 pm 
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ukfreddybear wrote:
Zogash wrote:
Saruman's Palantír no longer lets him cast spells anywhere on the board, but lets him auto-win priority once a game.


I only play SBG, but have always played to that rule anyway as per the one rulebook. In what rulebook does it say he can cast anywhere on the board?


Oh, is that rule in the ORB? :O I was duped then... I recently played against Isengard and the guy told me that's what the Palantír does. I'm pretty sure Good Saruman has a rule like that and in my old TT rulebook Evil Saruman could Push from anwhere, so I didn't bother to check and believed him. -.- Ah well, scratch that "change" then. ^^

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:12 pm 
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I'm just very glad th core profiles remained untouched and it seems the rules remain the same. The only thing they should've thought about is this: How on earth would a regular captain command the same amount of troops as, let's say Amdur? Thematically, those warbandrules are very accurate, there is ALWAYS a leader in smaller groups, but It forces you to add a whle lot of heroes before you get a decent army. This is where an important leader like Amdur should be allowed to command, for instance, 24 warriors, instead of the regular 12.

Overall I'm just happy they brought SBG back from the land of the dead.^^

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:18 pm 
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There were 'spell-enslaved' beasts at the battle before the Black Gates (at least in the book). What were those beasts, and what were they doing? I don't have any major artistic or 'historical' problem with the idea that they were carrying orcs on their backs. So long as I've got enough archers to sort them out before they get into contact, I'm fine... :legolas:

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Zogash wrote:
There are some quite interesting new facts we can gather from looking at the book excerpts: for instance, Saruman's Palantír no longer lets him cast spells anywhere on the board, but lets him auto-win priority once a game. I think this is a good thing, as immobilizing any hero anywhere on a 2+ was kinda cheesy after all. :)

Oh, that is good news...my friend Mark used to terrorize me with him against my Boromir (Fellowship version) led army when I first started playing the SBG. Eat it Mark!! :P

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