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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:15 pm 
Kinsman
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Draugluin wrote:
Bastion.HUN wrote:
Hellfury, Im note sure of the meaning of your senteces, maybe my english is not the best.
So, tell me, what is the commercial interests in destroying the WOTR line? Im not really get it.

He means that they're tired of people complaining about LotR, so now they're going to destroy the line once and for all. Which is dumb considering they just re-upped their license.

No, that is not what I mean. I cannot even fathom how you interpreted it that way... Like, seriously?

@ Bastion: The only thing I can think of regarding a decision to make buying into WotR next to impossible would be to reinvigorate the skirmish game.

By that I mean why sell more product for an almost reasonable price when you could sell less product for considerably more? WotR would go away but suddenly SBG would be back in prime. It has nothing to do with GW preferring one game design over the other and more to do with the bottom line. Money.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:31 pm 
Elven Elder
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We're not complaining about the new packaging, we're complaining about the 35% price hike. $33 for 24 minis was ok. I understand that they have to make money and repackaging costs them some, so I could understand $18-$19 for 12. Heck, I might buy some of the ones I dislike just because then I won't have a lot of them, like the orcs, Morannon or otherwise. But $22.50? Heck, no.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:54 am 
Elven Elder
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Hellfury wrote:
It is things like this that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that they do not want to retain customer loyalty. In fact, they actively drive people away. Why?

Well, there would be less people in shops kvetching about how when LotR first came out, a box of 24 last alliance warriors cost $12.50 to what we have now which has quadrupled in cost for those very same 24 models.

Well, considering that you said that yourself, hellfury, it would seem reasonable to assume that that's what you meant. You must be pretty dumb to not be able to fathom how I got what I got when you yourself said it. There's no reason to be a such a jerk.

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Last edited by Draugluin on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:55 am 
Elven Elder
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In any case, I figured you were just joking about that.

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Last edited by Draugluin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:38 am 
Elven Warrior
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It would be a stretch, but regarding the notion that GW would drive LotR customers away due to complaints could be a realistic possibility if the complaints we're talking about are the ones that come from WHFB and 40K players, who view LotR as a waste of GW's resources, time, and space. To "appease" these fans, GW could slowly, literally, destroy their own LotR base, until the next licensing runs out, at which point they would push WHFB and 40K even harder to make up for, what would be at that point, a relatively small amount of losses. It's way, way, way too far-fetched. I think GW likes LotR; I've said so before.

Here's how I view the situation. Games Workshop predicted that War of the Ring would be a greater success than it was--either that, or it was just a quick cash-in on an aspect of SBG that was lacking (big battles) during a period in which LotR sales were really slowing down. Either way, Games Workshop was simply trying to keep their LotR range alive until the Hobbit because 1) whenever the Hobbit film would be released, they would get a great pay-off, 2) the "Lord of the Rings" brand name is a really great marketing tool, 3) they can make maximum profits with minimal support for a name that big, and 4) to some extent, they have to "like" LotR. During this interim period between film series, GW has gone through a lot of material for SBG, and made WotR to get as much money as they could, until now, with the SBG is just about hanging on by a thread.

The Hobbit films spell a necessary return of the Strategy Battle Game, due to the complete lack of mass combat save the Battle of Five Armies, and therefore, a necessary scale-back on WotR, which was not profitable enough to be worth marketing alongside a resurgent SBG and most Hobbit scenarios. With this in mind, Games Workshop realized it had to steer customers and fans, old and new, back towards the SBG. Their best solution, the one that would generate the most profit with the smallest amount of marketing, would simply be to repackage the plastic infantry boxed sets, and up the prices. Less miniatures, for more money. LotR fans will now more naturally choose SBG over WotR--yet, come BoFA time, WotR will likely be encouraged again, with these prices two years out (if not increased) and now the norm. I think this kind of fits in line with the rumors of an unconfirmed new SBG book soon, and of course the types of situations we should expect to see in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, based on the book.

Games Workshop believes that their products are worth what they charge for them, and when people keep purchasing, they're proven right. A lot of us, including me, have said, "This is the last straw. I'm not getting into the Hobbit, except for, um, maybe one boxed set, to, you know, paint." I'll bet a boxed set of our intrepid dwarf, wizard, and hobbit heroes in Finecast by then will probably be $80-ish. Still, others have said, admiring the miniatures, that if they want to play SBG or WotR, they feel compelled to only use GW miniatures. GW is good at what it does.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:59 am 
Elven Elder
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Jamros wrote:
It would be a stretch, but regarding the notion that GW would drive LotR customers away due to complaints could be a realistic possibility if the complaints we're talking about are the ones that come from WHFB and 40K players, who view LotR as a waste of GW's resources, time, and space. To "appease" these fans, GW could slowly, literally, destroy their own LotR base, until the next licensing runs out, at which point they would push WHFB and 40K even harder to make up for, what would be at that point, a relatively small amount of losses. It's way, way, way too far-fetched. I think GW likes LotR; I've said so before.

Here's how I view the situation. Games Workshop predicted that War of the Ring would be a greater success than it was--either that, or it was just a quick cash-in on an aspect of SBG that was lacking (big battles) during a period in which LotR sales were really slowing down. Either way, Games Workshop was simply trying to keep their LotR range alive until the Hobbit because 1) whenever the Hobbit film would be released, they would get a great pay-off, 2) the "Lord of the Rings" brand name is a really great marketing tool, 3) they can make maximum profits with minimal support for a name that big, and 4) to some extent, they have to "like" LotR. During this interim period between film series, GW has gone through a lot of material for SBG, and made WotR to get as much money as they could, until now, with the SBG is just about hanging on by a thread.

The Hobbit films spell a necessary return of the Strategy Battle Game, due to the complete lack of mass combat save the Battle of Five Armies, and therefore, a necessary scale-back on WotR, which was not profitable enough to be worth marketing alongside a resurgent SBG and most Hobbit scenarios. With this in mind, Games Workshop realized it had to steer customers and fans, old and new, back towards the SBG. Their best solution, the one that would generate the most profit with the smallest amount of marketing, would simply be to repackage the plastic infantry boxed sets, and up the prices. Less miniatures, for more money. LotR fans will now more naturally choose SBG over WotR--yet, come BoFA time, WotR will likely be encouraged again, with these prices two years out (if not increased) and now the norm. I think this kind of fits in line with the rumors of an unconfirmed new SBG book soon, and of course the types of situations we should expect to see in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, based on the book.

Games Workshop believes that their products are worth what they charge for them, and when people keep purchasing, they're proven right. A lot of us, including me, have said, "This is the last straw. I'm not getting into the Hobbit, except for, um, maybe one boxed set, to, you know, paint." I'll bet a boxed set of our intrepid dwarf, wizard, and hobbit heroes in Finecast by then will probably be $80-ish. Still, others have said, admiring the miniatures, that if they want to play SBG or WotR, they feel compelled to only use GW miniatures. GW is good at what it does.


As much as I hate it, you're right. If they miraculously didn't increase prices in the next 2-3 years, I would look back on this as a decent move on GW's part. If they jack their prices with each movie, I will be pretty ticked off.

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Last edited by Draugluin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Jamros wrote:
Games Workshop believes that their products are worth what they charge for them, [I don't] and when people keep purchasing, they're proven right. [I've stopped, my last LOTR purchase was, though admittedly large at £50, two years ago. Essentially, I bought about 3 plastic boxes. That gave me the basis for FOUR entire armies - Gondor and Arnor, Mordor and Angmar. Because I only play SBG, thats all I need. And that was adding to my existing Gondor and Mordor collections. The Rangers, and Mordor Orcs, Warg Riders and Wild Wargs are interchangeable between the armies. A change of heroes and elites (which I already have) and they're a new army. If I want to play large games, I ally Gondor & Arnor or Mordor and Angmar and the Nazgul together, or add a cave troll/mordor troll (I have a plastic mordor troll which I also proxy as a cave troll on occasion) ] A lot of us, including me, have said, "This is the last straw. I'm not getting into the Hobbit, except for, um, maybe one boxed set, to, you know, paint." [Well for me, I've finally decided to give up. I'm sick of the ridiculously high prices, and because I'm now a member of a gaming club where other games and miniatures from other manufacturers such as Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory are used, I now have more options and choice. So I no longer play at GW, and I'm using Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory Saxons as Rohan proxies whenever I can find a LOTR SBG (not often). There are a few more LOTR miniatures I'd like, such as Cirion & Madril, 6 Hobbit Archers for an Arnor battle company and maybe a second plastic troll. But I've wanted them for two years, and still havn't brought myself to forking out for them.] I have a ver I'll bet a boxed set of our intrepid dwarf, wizard, and hobbit heroes in Finecast by then will probably be $80-ish. Still, others have said, admiring the miniatures, that if they want to play SBG or WotR, they feel compelled to only use GW miniatures. GW is good at what it does. [All I buy from GW now is the Black Library Horus Heresy novels, because at £8 a book thats a price I think is fair. And the paints on rare occasions, when I can't find better paints next door at Boyes (the Vallejo metal paints which Boyes sells are Devlan Mud in comparison to GW's metal paints. I havn't found a good substitue for Boltgun Metal and Chainmail).]

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Seeing as so many posters on here state that they don't ever buy from GW any more and that they use ebay if they need anything, but mostly they don't as they have hundreds of models... it makes sense for GW to raise prices- plenty of "veteran" gamers don't buy any more anyway so it makes no difference in terms of sales. When the hobbit appears though and more people are heading into GW and seeing the games and wanting to get started, the prices will be set and won't be anything different to them. In fact they'll see 10 marines for £23 and 12 Gondor for £13.50. Will seem like a bargain I'm sure...
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:28 am 
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Lorizael wrote:
Seeing as so many posters on here state that they don't ever buy from GW any more and that they use ebay if they need anything, but mostly they don't as they have hundreds of models... it makes sense for GW to raise prices- plenty of "veteran" gamers don't buy any more anyway so it makes no difference in terms of sales. When the hobbit appears though and more people are heading into GW and seeing the games and wanting to get started, the prices will be set and won't be anything different to them. In fact they'll see 10 marines for £23 and 12 Gondor for £13.50. Will seem like a bargain I'm sure...


Hey, don't get me wrong. If GW prices were still reasonable, like they were about 3 years ago, I'd start new armies. I'd really like a Khazad Dum army for instance. But GW has long passed the limits of what I'm willing to pay. Its got nothing to do with how big my collection is already (huge, over 600 models and only about 200 painted :oops: ). But I've since encountered other manufacturers, who offer me similar models (if not based on the LOTR IP) at twice the model count and half the price of GW - (really :D 44 and 32 Saxons for £20 and £15). And theres several games out there just as good as SBG - SAGA and Age of Blood are games I intend to play soon.

So any new armies I ever do for SBG will be bought second hand or proxied using other manufacturers models (like my Gripping Beast and wargames factory Saxons as Rohan).

edit...heh, I must sound like a broken record. I'm even starting to annoy myself, repeating the same points. Feel free to tell me to shutup, people. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I agree though, I have hundreds of models, my mordor army is nearly 7000 points, I have started collecting most armies, but I kind of wanted to buy an elven army and paint it to my best ability, but it is just too expensive now. Had they stayed at £15 I would have bought them new a long time ago, had they stayed £17.50 I would have seriously considered, when they turned £20 I simply couldn't warrant it, now it would be £27 for 24... Now it ain't gonna happen.
Still, who wants elves anyway.... :-(

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:40 pm 
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King Ondoher wrote:
Feel free to tell me to shutup, people. :lol:


Go shutup people! Oh wait...that's not exactly what you meant is it? :rofl:

Seriously though, you nailed it for a lot of us with this part:

King Ondoher wrote:
If GW prices were still reasonable, like they were about 3 years ago, I'd start new armies.


I have a large backlog of a few hundred models myself, with almost half being cav (so effectively double). But as of about two price raises ago I was still ordering regularly thru my LGS. After that price raise it dropped to twice a year, basically self-purchased Christmas and BDay presents. After this price range it's gone to zero new. Even with the Hobbit release that's likely not to change. I'm still in the hobby. Still loving the game. Still growing my forces but there will be no further full-price GW purchases from me.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:41 pm 
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I'd like a Khazad Dum army.
I've always fancied owning my own Mumak. Or two. Or three.
I want more plastic trolls as I messed up my first one - the pose is rather naff. And of course who wouldn't want 3 trolls? Or 10? :D
I'd like to do a Rohan army. (in fact I already am in a sense, as I can use my non-GW Anglo Saxons as Rohirrim Infantry. At less than half the price).

But then I look at the prices and think ...do I really want to spend that much?

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Something else I've noticed is that the warhammer fortress set has gone up from £51.25 to £61.50. Not strictly speaking LOTR but I think it fits in quite nicely with it (bought one myself just before christmas, glad that I did now). The individual pieces are the same price I believe, but that was the more expensive way of buying it anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:21 pm 
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I remember the Ancient Days when a box of 24 plastics was £12... :sad:
I have decided to keep GW guessing from now on. There, stick that in your sales and marketing strategy spreadsheet!

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:03 pm 
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What IS everyone saying?? They cost 13.50, seems pretty fair to be honest.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:07 pm 
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MeatBoy1994 wrote:
What IS everyone saying?? They cost 13.50, seems pretty fair to be honest.


In releation to other box sets £13.50 for a box of 12 is actually pretty decent.
What isn't fair is that the same identical models were boxed as 24 men for £17.50 this time last year.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:49 pm 
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...and 18 months ago the we're £15 for £24, that's what is annoying.
Still as some have said, by Christmas the Hobbit will be out with a new fan base and parents to pay, they'll see the Imperial Guard and think its a bargain...
...I just want to see the new rules and how they fit in with what I have, then see whati want to do about adding figures.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:03 pm 
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MeatBoy1994 wrote:
What IS everyone saying?? They cost 13.50, seems pretty fair to be honest.


Are you insane! That is a ludicrous price for 10-12 models, when not long ago it cast £15 for 20-24. You are either very rich and/or are unaware of the original pricing.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:33 pm 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
MeatBoy1994 wrote:
What IS everyone saying?? They cost 13.50, seems pretty fair to be honest.


Are you insane! That is a ludicrous price for 10-12 models, when not long ago it cast £15 for 20-24. You are either very rich and/or are unaware of the original pricing.

Considering he joined only last week, he might not know the original pricing.

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