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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:18 pm 
Craftsman
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hithero wrote:
Jobu wrote:
Most GW spruces are eight to a sprue so they can not half the contents unless they remake the molds. Which is pretty expensive. I believe they will repackage for the hobbit but I have a hard time believing the half the contents. Some boxes were only twenty. New infantry from the hobbit may be 12 to a box, a bunch of dwarves perhaps? I can see a box of plastic heroes being that much.


They are 12 to a sprue, the packaging will cost more than the sprue if there is only one to a box! Anyway, bye-bye GW.


Just checked my boxes, yeah, 12. I agree, IF this is true that it would really make me rethink buying anything GW again.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:23 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Jobu wrote:
hithero wrote:
Jobu wrote:
Most GW spruces are eight to a sprue so they can not half the contents unless they remake the molds. Which is pretty expensive. I believe they will repackage for the hobbit but I have a hard time believing the half the contents. Some boxes were only twenty. New infantry from the hobbit may be 12 to a box, a bunch of dwarves perhaps? I can see a box of plastic heroes being that much.


They are 12 to a sprue, the packaging will cost more than the sprue if there is only one to a box! Anyway, bye-bye GW.


Just checked my boxes, yeah, 12. I agree, IF this is true that it would really make me rethink buying anything GW again.


Looks like ebay will have a lot of visits from now on :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:52 pm 
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While reading the posts I recognized a few people saying that this wouldn't be good for WOTR. Isn't WOTR pretty much the only version played anymore? (At least that's the impression I get...) Could it be that GW is leaning back towards SBG and skirmish games for the upcoming Hobbit release? Just an observation...
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Sir Richard wrote:
While reading the posts I recognized a few people saying that this wouldn't be good for WOTR. Isn't WOTR pretty much the only version played anymore? (At least that's the impression I get...) Could it be that GW is leaning back towards SBG and skirmish games for the upcoming Hobbit release? Just an observation...


Nope, a lot of people play sbg, i just found some guys in my country thar play both

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Chris wrote:
Sir Richard wrote:
While reading the posts I recognized a few people saying that this wouldn't be good for WOTR. Isn't WOTR pretty much the only version played anymore? (At least that's the impression I get...) Could it be that GW is leaning back towards SBG and skirmish games for the upcoming Hobbit release? Just an observation...


Nope, a lot of people play sbg, i just found some guys in my country thar play both


I play strategy battle game, as when i did play back in the day, it's all that was around, I got back nto the hobby about 6 months ago when WOTR was at it's peak and i went to my local GW open day when it was released just to see what it was like! I think they may be encouraging people to play it some more but wotr won't be forgotten!

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Sir Rich - SBG is the only system I play. My friends haven't shown any interest in WOTR either. SBG has been around for 10 years, I doubt WOTR will last as long...

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I am of the mind that SBG is the superior of the two systems, and, to look on the bright side, a repackaging would force more elite armies onto the board (wait, that's the bright side?). As it would rather put an end to horde armies. *sigh* So much for that eventual Angmar army. The Witch-king will just have to remain happy commanding other armies, seeing as, until sometime down the road, he won't be able to fund his own.

And, imo, this re-packaging spells doom for WoTR- building armies just went from expensive to astronomical.

Thus, my hope that it doesn't actually happen.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:42 pm 
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ARGH. What on earth atre they playing that if this is true. Considering 24/20 model cost £15 when I started and now cost £20.50, it will probably be £30 soon, this is ridiculous, I already cut down on metals (and their 'new FC' replacements), I don't want to be forced to do so with plastic as well.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Let's boycot them, they keep raising those prices! $26 for 24 or 20 minifigures is ok but this is going way too far!
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Sorry guys, I didn't make it to the store today after all, got held up at Uni. Tomorrow is veterans' night, though, so I'll definitely poke the redshirt for more info and an ETA then. I'm guessing that since stores don't get such info until shortly before its implementation, the switch is probably not far ahead. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:36 am 
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Good thing I don't require anymore foot soldier models for my armires...yikes!!

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:12 am 
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Crud, this is NOT good at all. Increasing the price a few bucks isn't that bad, but when they increase it by the same amount for half the models, this is horrible. Looks like they're trying to go the way of Warhammer, where you buy a measly 3-5 models for $50.

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Last edited by Draugluin on Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:26 am 
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dear games workshop, you suck. greetings; One Ring

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:48 am 
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dear games workshop, you suck. greetings; One Ring


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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:17 pm 
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fritskuhntm wrote:
dear games workshop, you suck. greetings; One Ring


+1

On the positive side, GW's prices have encouraged me to get my butt in gear on my FoW army that has been sitting on my shelf for about a year. It's all metal troops and a mix of metal and (very high detailed) plastics on vehicles. Yes, they have a cost involved as well but let me give a quick comparison...

Posted above indicated how you would have to spend about $75 to get 6 trays worth of figures as each box contains a useless 1/2 tray of each pose. This would give you 4 trays of infantry and 2 trays of archers. To put this in FoW terms that's two platoons, one with 4 squads and one with 2 squads. No Heroes (command) and probably only about 120points if these were point-expensive models. That's not much of a starting army of itself. :no:

Last year I invested about $75 in FoW to get a Panzergrenadier box set. With that box I can field the following (not all official FoW terms but simplified for example):

Command HQ ( 2x Officer squads and two anti-tank squads)
Combat Platoon One (1x Officer squad and three troop squads including one anti-tank squad)
Combat Platoon Two (1x Officer squad and three troop squads including one anti-tank squad)
Heavy Platoon (2x heavy machine gun squads)
Light Anti-Tank Gun Platoon (3x Pak40 gun squads)
Snipers (3x independent sniper squads of two models each)

That comes up to about 1140 points. Consider that a good size FoW game has point values relative to WotR, so typical games and events are played in the 1500 - 1750 range, but anything over 750 can be a fun game (game seems to balance out starting between 1000 and 1200, just like WotR, and continues well to 2000 which is as high as I've seen). So for $75 you can get an infantry army that will play well even against tank armies.

If you want to add some armor into that force then for about $40 you can get a box set of tanks that will add between 500 and 600 points (again, including a command squad). So you could pick up two such sets for $80 and have a decent start to a tank army of 1000 - 1200 points.

As in real live combined arms is usually the most effective so you can see that for about $160 investment you can have over 2000 points of combined infantry and armor. This isn't a perfectly balanced force obviously but it really is playable and fun and the price to get the specific squads you want in smaller sets doesn't come out any worse than it does getting these larger boxes and the boxes are easier for demonstration purposes.

What can you get from GW for $160, especially after this next change goes in?

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:47 pm 
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2 boxes of plastic infantry, 1 box of the cheaper cavalry (warg riders etc), a major hero and 2 sets of elites. Maybe trade the warg riders for some Morgul Knights. Not terrible right now. If they increase prices (assuming just on the infantry) you would have to take out the cavalry and one set of elites. Now that stinks.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Not terrible for SBG games, but pretty sad for WotR. Assuming some high-point units:

2x boxes of plastic infantry - Morannon Orc = 6 Companies for 150pts
1x box of cheap cav - Warg Riders = 3 Companies for 75pts
1 Epic - why not go with Gothmog, right? 110pts
2 sets of elites. Previously this still wouldn't get you two companies, but let's say you manage it...one company of Black Guard, 50pts

So for $160 you get 385points, almost 1/3 of which is tied up in a single Epic and you have no shooting (unless you elect to give your Warg Riders bows vs. shields). The six-companies of Morannon with Gothmog would be a decent center of the force and at such a low point level the tiny cav and one company of Black Guard will be fair. But I don't think anyone would say a 400pt WotR army is "fun", is no where close to tournament points and about half of what I see as most minimum-point fun games.

By comparison from another company / game system that same price gets you an army that covers friendly game and tournament point sizes, has a large variety of forces made up of mostly metal miniatures and can be easily competitive (you could build a more competitive version if you spent that same money on specific sets rather than some of the larger boxes).

They fill significantly different niches of course. I will not give up LotR based play in favor of historicals 100%. But it seems GW has a blind eye to the fact that there ARE options out there for gamers. And I don't just mean the choice of which GW system they will play (that seems to be their mentality).

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:17 pm 
Elven Elder
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It seems that GW figures that since we've already sunk so much money into their games, we won't go to their competitors. But for SBG, that is pretty dag-gone good.

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Can definitely confirm that this is happening.

Also the shops have been told to "expand their shelving space for Lotr"

Something good is coming ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NEWS: GW repackages infantry boxes and increases prices
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Beowulf03809 wrote:
Not terrible for SBG games, but pretty sad for WotR. Assuming some high-point units:
....
By comparison from another company / game system that same price gets you an army that covers friendly game and tournament point sizes, has a large variety of forces made up of mostly metal miniatures and can be easily competitive (you could build a more competitive version if you spent that same money on specific sets rather than some of the larger boxes).

They fill significantly different niches of course. I will not give up LotR based play in favor of historicals 100%. But it seems GW has a blind eye to the fact that there ARE options out there for gamers. And I don't just mean the choice of which GW system they will play (that seems to be their mentality).

$90 (in South Pacific Pesos/NZD, I think the best we did at one stage was .8 USD) got me enough infantry from a BIG (120 fig) Roman army, in 28mm plastic for Impetvs. Another $25 got me the metal Cavalry and then say another $20 for metal commanders etc (had to have General Maximus). That army almost approaches WOTR in fig count...To compare to SBG/Skirmish, You Can have a SAGA Warband for the price of a box of plastic Vikings/Saxons/unarmoured Vikings (similar to the CURRENT 24 fig LOTR here) - $40 NZD tops - plus some metal characters/particular figs/elites for say another $33 NZD more. That will be for the typical 40-50 fig force. I think SBG Skirmish doesn't come out of the comparison too badly. I know that I am willing to pay more for certain figs, even for historicals, as long as it is in small number.

On the positive side of the ledger, I think that the fact GW (and Battlefront, for that matter) have managed to get the price up there has created hope for many smaller guys that they will actually be able to scrape a living and get some new choices out there for us. In the past, Wargamers could be pretty price-conscious....

I think they will continue to 'try it on'. However, it will kill any realistic prospect of WOTR style Middle-Earth gaming. The fig count in the game is huge, and while I love it, I guess I was lucky to get my GW figs when they were affordable. A lot of the armies can be done using historicals though.... :)

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