Hi everyone, I Played a game on Tuesday evening with my MM army against an army of Elves. I played my Balrog and my opponent called Epic Shot against my Balrog. He rolled a 3 and so rolled 3 dice on the EHTK table! Is that correct? I thought it would be just 1 roll, as he has resilience 2. Which is correct? Many thanx

The rules say target suffers D6 automatic hits so i would have thought that a roll of 3 would have been 1 roll on the table the 3rd hit would have been disgarded.

That is what I thought, although he was adamant that it was 3 dice, hopefully it's clarified before I lose again Lol

Yeah, I can see how someone would argue that Epic Shot vs/ the "To Kill" table. Others have said the same. It's pretty clear though that Hits do NOT equal rolls. It takes a certain number of hits to accumulate a roll.

Now when combined with Legolas's special rule to reduce resilience, Epic Shot vs. monsters becomes far more effective. So be warned.

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[quote="Beowulf03809"]Yeah, I can see how someone would argue that Epic Shot vs/ the "To Kill" table. Others have said the same. It's pretty clear though that Hits do NOT equal rolls. It takes a certain number of hits to accumulate a roll.quote]

Well said, and i agree i think the rules have been played wrong that game. Res 2 means two "hits" needed for one roll. Your friend was probably so adament about the rule becuase of the "automatic hits", that just means you dont have to roll on the wond chart, and cross revernce the defense of the target becasue it is a automatic hit, however you still need 2 hits or automatic hits for one roll on the EH2K table and work it from there.

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The key is the word hits, instead of wounds. Get them to reread the Epic Shot rule and the Resilience rules.

Thank you everyone, I keep wondering why my so Called EHTK monster dies easily. I guess 3 rolls instead of 1 helps also eh? Lol

Just a little bit Always helps to play the right way, but we all gotta learn

Yeah, this is why I have been having doubts about playing my EHTK monsters. But now after browsing on here and reading the other posts, the EHTK monsters seem to be quite good so I may use 1 or 2 in my next game

Yes, it can be hard to fight someone who is 'adamant' about an interpretation of the rules, especially if you are hazy yourself. I saw once a GW store manager* play it so that not only did he Might a 5 on the EH2K to a 6 and get a reroll (tut tut)... but then ADDED the second roll to the first roll (i.e. rolled a 4 the second time and added to the first '6' to get 10 on the Stone Giant's EH2K table) (more tut tuts)

Needless to say about one volley from 3 companies of WoMT and a couple Might points slew the Stone Giant too cheaply... and illegally.

Looking at the H2K table in the Special Rules section it says that each wound drives back the H2K monster back d3 inches if shot at. You live and learn! - another rule snippet I missed before now. The question is, and seems appropriate for this thread... Would that apply also to EH2K? (I would have thought so...)


(* The GW store manager was a good fellow really,and was one of those who loved WotR and actively pushed it hard in his store...)

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Just a quick one? Can you not adjust rolls on the EHTK table using might?

Yes you can. In fact, They are one of the few things on which you can spend might to increasethe roll above "6". (the other being charge distance). So if you roll a "1" on the first roll and have 14 might to spend you can kill the monster right then.

Hi FL, where does the Might have to come from? Anywhere? Or from the formation making the attack?

From the formation making the attack, so your not really likely to have it, and honestly that would be a big waste of might most of the time even if you did have it, but it is an option.

The problem was that he made it a six and rolled a second time. You only get the roll if it's a natural six - essentially, you increase your place on the chart, not the side of the die.

You can only ever use Might from the source of the attack (so another formation in combat couldn't lend a point, lol).

As for driving back EHTK/RHTK - the rules don't say that you do, annoyingly, but I think the spirit is intended that you do get pushed back. also, it's something that I often forget, but I forget it a lot anyway - D3" doesn't often affect you much, especially if it's only on a wound counter/lost company (which would bother me more). If it were 2D3"/D6" or every time you took casualties (but not both!), it may have a larger affect on my games. Either way, I play dwarfs - not too fussed, hahaha.

Yes, the rules are very clear that it must be a natural 6 to get another roll. Modified with might doesn't do that.

The rules for Extremely HtK say that it works like regular Hard to Kill except for the alternate table, so that would include being driven back. With the EHtK monsters, that could result in a fair amount of distance. If a Dragon accumulated 5-6 wound counters in one attack, that would be driving him back 10-12" on average, so much for charging.

Ah Good, I didn't have time to trawl the book to confirm this. It makes more sense. And yes its quite possible to give one of these beasties 5 or more wound counters in a turn, even from shooting, and driving it back 5d3 inches keeps the poor archer/xbows in the agme a wee bit longer.

Going back to epic shot... as a shooting attack that well can score wounds on a EH2K/RH2K it too would drive back... so makes old Legolas vs the Mumaks as in the RotK film more simulated yay. Erm... hmm I will be taking Mumaks against my regular opponent's elven legions... scrub that yay...

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Technically speaking I don't think Epic Shot counts as a shooting attack, it is just one of the Epic Abilities, so I don't think it would drive them back. I can certainly see an argument that it SHOULD be considered a shooting attack though.

My apologies for forgetting that it states that's the only difference - yes they get driven back The more wounded it is, the further it gets driven back (at some point, it's at least 3D3").

Epic Shot is only used in the shooting phase - it's not a shooting attack