Two handed weapons

Azrael · **Posted:** Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:36 pm

Can my dwarf ranger still use use a handweapon if i get them a two-handed one ?

spuds4ever · **Posted:** Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:53 pm

Yes, it might be better if you give the rule-book a good look through for these things as it will save you the trouble of having to wait for answers.

imrail · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:24 pm **Posts:** 666

Also, try to use the search button, an almost similiar thread was made a couple of days ago.

Azrael · **Posted:** Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:58 pm

Ill take it both to heart. Thanks guys..

Azrael · **Posted:** Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:04 pm

Quote:

Yes, it might be better if you give the rule-book a good look through for these things as it will save you the trouble of having to wait for answers.

I can't find anything about that in the rule-book actually. My question is wheter i can decide each cc phase if i use two-handed or one-handed weapon if the ranger got a twohanded?

spuds4ever · **Posted:** Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:19 pm

It does say in the section on wargear in the rulebook which weapons a guy with a 2H weapon can carry as well.

Anc · **Joined:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:11 am **Posts:** 10

Azrael wrote:

Can my dwarf ranger still use use a handweapon if i get them a two-handed one ?

I would say no. I base this on the fact that in the rulebook Elven glaives are given a specific rule to say they can be used as either 2h weapons or 1h weapons.

Now one would have to ask why would they put that rule into the game if models armed with 2h weapons could just decide to pull a 1h weapon from nowhere. If this were so they would just classify elven glaives as a 2h weapon.

Oh and before someone points out the FAQ that stated models are armed with a 1h weapon even if its not in their profile, that was meant to clear up the confusion about models with NO weapons listed.

Azrael · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:18 am

Quote:

I would say no. I base this on the fact that in the rulebook Elven glaives are given a specific rule to say they can be used as either 2h weapons or 1h weapons.

Now one would have to ask why would they put that rule into the game if models armed with 2h weapons could just decide to pull a 1h weapon from nowhere. If this were so they would just classify elven glaives as a 2h weapon.

Oh and before someone points out the FAQ that stated models are armed with a 1h weapon even if its not in their profile, that was meant to clear up the confusion about models with NO weapons listed.

Thanks, thats what i asked for

imrail · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:24 pm **Posts:** 666

Well, I never thought about that, with those elven glaives.
But I think you have to choose to use the weapons after the priority roll, before moving.

The elves can change in the fight phase.

hithero · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:03 pm

Azrael wrote:

Quote:

I would say no. I base this on the fact that in the rulebook Elven glaives are given a specific rule to say they can be used as either 2h weapons or 1h weapons.

Now one would have to ask why would they put that rule into the game if models armed with 2h weapons could just decide to pull a 1h weapon from nowhere. If this were so they would just classify elven glaives as a 2h weapon.

Oh and before someone points out the FAQ that stated models are armed with a 1h weapon even if its not in their profile, that was meant to clear up the confusion about models with NO weapons listed.

Thanks, thats what i asked for

Incorrect answer though. You can not switch during a fight phase but can select what weapon to use before you roll for the fight. I'll dig out some page references when I get home if needed.

Anc · **Joined:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:11 am **Posts:** 10

hithero wrote:

Azrael wrote:

Quote:

I would say no. I base this on the fact that in the rulebook Elven glaives are given a specific rule to say they can be used as either 2h weapons or 1h weapons.

Now one would have to ask why would they put that rule into the game if models armed with 2h weapons could just decide to pull a 1h weapon from nowhere. If this were so they would just classify elven glaives as a 2h weapon.

Oh and before someone points out the FAQ that stated models are armed with a 1h weapon even if its not in their profile, that was meant to clear up the confusion about models with NO weapons listed.

Thanks, thats what i asked for

Incorrect answer though. You can not switch during a fight phase but can select what weapon to use before you roll for the fight. I'll dig out some page references when I get home if needed.

Hmmm im pretty sure choosing which weapon before you roll would be the exact same effect as having an Elven blade (ie choosing at the start of the fight phase).

Now you might not want my interpretation to be right purely for min max purposes but it is the most logical way to look at the whole situation.

Dwarf Lord of Ered Luin · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:21 pm

If I am correct the rules for elven blades came out when elves would have otherwise been unarmed, the other rule has changed so elven blades are pretty much the same as two handed weapons with the exception that you can take it with a bow which isn't really helpful. Also, if you look at the profile for dwarf rangers you will see that they have a hand weapon and it does not say you have to give up the hand weapon so you have both and can use both just let your opponent know which one you are using before you role as Hitherto said.

Anc · **Joined:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:11 am **Posts:** 10

Dwarf Lord of Ered Luin wrote:

If I am correct the rules for elven blades came out when elves would have otherwise been unarmed, the other rule has changed so elven blades are pretty much the same as two handed weapons with the exception that you can take it with a bow which isn't really helpful. Also, if you look at the profile for dwarf rangers you will see that they have a hand weapon and it does not say you have to give up the hand weapon so you have both and can use both just let your opponent know which one you are using before you role as Hitherto said.

No, the rules for elven blades had nothing to do with elves being otherwise unarmed. If there was no weapon listed they were assumed to have a hand weapon not an elven blade.
The elven blade is a specific exception to the 2h weapon rule and as such adds a unique option to elves.
Giving everyone to option to do the same thing as elven blades defeats the purpose of putting the rule in the game.
I would still say the 2h weapon replaces the 1h weapon because no warrior in their right mind would swap mid battle to a smaller weapon.

This is how i read the rules and i would never allow an opponent to swap weapons in my games as it is completely out of character and not in the spirit of the game imo. This is the last ill say on it, you can make up your own minds but im sure everyone will pick the side which benefits them most as per human nature.

theavenger001 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:51 pm

Quote:

Can my dwarf ranger still use use a handweapon if i get them a two-handed one ?

Simple answer, yes. Dwarf rangers have hand weapons, and you are alowed to carry both hand weapons and two-handed weapons so you can carry and use both. Just state which you are going to use before any dice are rolled in the fight. Simple as that.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:56 pm

Anc wrote:

This is how i read the rules and i would never allow an opponent to swap weapons in my games as it is completely out of character and not in the spirit of the game imo. This is the last ill say on it, you can make up your own minds but im sure everyone will pick the side which benefits them most as per human nature.

Not trying to drag you back into a conversation you are stepping away from, so don't feel you need to reply. But when it comes to something like this, you only have control of your own choices and would be hard pressed to find many opponents that would accept the limitation.

Though I agree with your choice here and play that way myself (most 2H models in my armies never swap to 1H), it is by choice and not by a read of the rule. If you and all your mates agree to make that a house rule that's one thing (and probably a great house-rule to have that actually makes Elf Blades and some other special rules 'special' again), but I know in our local group I'm pretty much the only player that does this. I've played against SBG Isengard forces that are very happy to use the 'zerks with 1H if the odds are against them. As they are following the rules and its official clarifications it's not my place to tell them they can't.

When something is open to much interpretation then it is often human nature that tries to pick the most beneficial result. There have been a few such gray areas in certain SBG rules/profiles and several more in WotR (newer systems always suffer more). But in this case it has been addressed by GW and isn't a situation where people can interpret and "pick the side". You can elect not to do it yourself if you don't agree, and you can try to convince those you play with as well, but I imagine you'd have trouble getting most experienced players to agree to limit themselves in such a way.

Azrael · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:28 pm

Thanks for your replies...

Quote:

Simple answer, yes. Dwarf rangers have hand weapons, and you are alowed to carry both hand weapons and two-handed weapons so you can carry and use both. Just state which you are going to use before any dice are rolled in the fight. Simple as that.

Actually its just strange because the 2h dont cost anything for dwarf ranger and then iam wondering why not all come with 2h weapons? I don't know for sure whether it says one can swap the 1h for 2h or not...

Linkan · **Joined:** Tue May 11, 2004 3:46 pm **Posts:** 28

Anc wrote:

This is how i read the rules and i would never allow an opponent to swap weapons in my games as it is completely out of character and not in the spirit of the game imo. This is the last ill say on it, you can make up your own minds but im sure everyone will pick the side which benefits them most as per human nature.

This is how the rules where written about 6 years ago or so. I don't remember if the change came in RoTK or the One Rule Book (I think it was the latter), but it was an inteded change to the rules, and there was one or two articles in WD at the time on why the change was made. Both the letter and the intent of the rule is that a figure with 2H weapons can choose between using a 1H or a 2H weapon for each fight. And if you think that "the intent of the designers" are not "in the spirit of the game", that is not for me to judge, but I prefer to play the game the way it was designed without house rules (much easier when you play someone from other groups).

whafrog · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:50 pm

Azrael wrote:

Actually its just strange because the 2h dont cost anything for dwarf ranger and then iam wondering why not all come with 2h weapons? I don't know for sure whether it says one can swap the 1h for 2h or not...

You don't have to swap them, you can just take them. They're free because:

a) you can't take them with a bow or shield.
b) many races/cultures have a special rule or compensation. For elves it's woodland creature, for dwarves it's this.

Deciding not to use 1H weapons if you equip your warriors with 2H weapons is a personal choice, nothing to do with the rules or "designer's intent".

hithero · **Posted:** Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:34 pm

Ok.
Page 42 of the rules state that if armed with more than one close combat weapon, you have to choose which you want to use during the whole of the fight phase. A black and white answer not open to any different interpretation, it even gives sword and 2-handed weapon as an example.

The dwarven profiles allows you to give dwarves all ready armed with a hand axe a two-handed axe in addition (exchange is not mentioned at all), which means they can utilise the rule above.

So where exactly does the 'interpretation' that dwarf Rangers can't use either weapon in a game come from?

And as to why dwarves get 2-handed axes free? I asked this question myself when playtesting Khazadum, the answer was because they are dwarves - seems a good argument to me.

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

Totally agree with hithero, though if you choose not to use this option yourself and decided to use 2H every time, that's your own choice and it doesn't obligate your opponent to do the same.

Two handed weapons

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