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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:13 am 
Elven Warrior
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samoht wrote:
Captain Ingold wrote:
samoht, I shall answer your comment with one by Haldir_Strikes:



Haldir_Strikes wrote:
You seem to have forgotten that it is an Elven Blade, and so would be able to used both one or two-handed.


That thought did come across me but still, on a horse? That short little blade, being wielded from such a height? Even if it can be used one handed it still seems to be a bad choice for a cavalry sword. Surely you'll agree with in saying that.


I will agree with you saying that it looks awkward, but against cavalry it is perfectly fine. Look at this game-trailer to see some sword-armed horsemen fighting infantry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow4cC-Cz5l8&feature=related. It was a very common thing for knights to fight with swords if they couldn't afford to buy dozens of lances (lances shattered easily.)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:16 am 
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I don't care about lances. I favour swords when it comes to cavalry, but I don't like it when the blade is so damn short like we see on those elves. Thats the problem.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:35 am 
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American Indians used bows and also later when they got them rifles on horseback, they also didn't use tack or saddles either and controlled their horses by strength in the legs and if they held on to the horse at all they would hold onto the mane, this shows exceptional horsemanship on their point and that is the point in fact the elves are masters of the world around them, they too didn't burden the horse with saddles (not sure about reins) however i don't remember reading in the histories of Elves using mass cavalry again I could just have forgotten that.
The elven glaive may look unwieldy but with the exceptional reflexes that Elves were written as having then the weapon becomes more plausible.
I would be more concerned with the one holding a banner in one hand and a dirty great shield in the other now that is impracticable to say the least.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:49 am 
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Yeah, holding a banner and a shield? Is that even legal.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Captain Ingold wrote:
I will agree with you saying that it looks awkward, but against cavalry it is perfectly fine. Look at this game-trailer to see some sword-armed horsemen fighting infantry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow4cC-Cz5l8&feature=related.


Yes, Age of Empires is a truly realistic way of simulating sword combat. :roll:

I think the claim is a bit overstretched. Yes, GW has the grip of the elves on an extremely high point of the hilt, which makes the weapon a bit short, but it is still as functional as any other kind of weapon.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Joansean wrote:
Captain Ingold wrote:
I will agree with you saying that it looks awkward, but against cavalry it is perfectly fine. Look at this game-trailer to see some sword-armed horsemen fighting infantry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow4cC-Cz5l8&feature=related.


Yes, Age of Empires is a truly realistic way of simulating sword combat. :roll:
I was watching the video at the time and was too lazy to look for a better one. I'll look for a more realistic one....


EDIT: At least this one isn't CGI'ed. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:06 am 
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I have a few things to say, just my two cents

THEY ARE ELVES

ARGH, they are the image of what everything in Middle Earth aspires to, so it shouldn't be that hard to use such a short (it really isn't) sword on horseback, and they don't need to control there horses, read the fluff for them and you'll understand.

Now to the historic stand point, I'm a self confessed History nut, but I still don't know too much, here is what I do know

Anyone heard of the Battle of Hastings, they were charging uphill, and they still had swords, if you look at it, the way a lance works is by getting enough force behind it. But if you didn't it would be batted away and you'd get owned by the person you were trying to charge.

Just my two cents, I don't mean to be offensive or anything just putting my opinion in on a topic I really love (History :D )

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:13 am 
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I wasn't looking at them as the super elves they are. Just from a realistic point of view. Thats all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:15 am 
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Yeah, I tried to look at it in both ways :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:15 pm 
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All historical references aside, if the elf were to hold the glaive in the middle of the handle, or towards the bottom, he would have plenty of reach, and with the reach a good bit of momentum, and force. Besides it could be worse. At least he's not trying to use a dagger or something :P
In the end if it really bugs you that much just cut off the extra part of the handle and sculpt a longer blade with green stuff or something. Best part of this game is if you don't like something you can usually change it pretty easily.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:27 am 
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This is kinda irrelevant but I think it was triggered by this thread.

Last night I had a dream that I was looking at an elven glaive, and the handle was about more than two 3rds as long as the blade.

weird... :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:29 am 
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samoht wrote:
Quote:
Last night I had a dream that I was looking at an elven glaive, and the handle was about more than two 3rds as long as the blade.


You need to start getting more sleep. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:55 am 
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Its true, I do. I go to bed too late lol :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Quote:
At least they didn't give them tower shields :rofl:


Shhhh!!! Don't give GW ideas!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Also:

This
Image
is a glaive.

That thing in the Elf's hot little hand? It's a sword. GW is being helpful and, uh, not sure what they are doing. But its a sword. The things wielded by the High Elf spearmen? Glaive. The Numenorean spearmen? Glaive.

One thing that vexes discussions of realism in Lord of the Rings is that the "olden days" were not homogenic. Things changed a lot, back then. People reacted to things, and tactics and strategies adjusted. What was true in 540AD was not as true in 900AD, and certainly not true in 1340. How armies were raised and who raised them changed utterly between the Roman Era to the post-Roman period to the medieval in England alone. Alfred's standing army looked nothing like Henry's archers at Agincourt. Rohan, for example, are not a cavalry force as a medieval general would understand it - they are rather an army of freemen (who just happen to be mounted), a bit like Harold Godwinson's army in 1066. Only on horses. Unlike Harold's army, they have horses, and they don't suck. Important distinction that. :p

Anyway, heavy cavalry has used swords since the middle of the Roman era, at the very least and probably earlier. Those long, sort of chunky swords we see the Riders of Rohan using in the movie? Those were the Germanic adaption of the older Roman cavalry sword. Wield it one handed and smack it down on the poor [word deleted] you are trying to kill. Lances (as in heavy long spears held "couched" under your arm) were a Norman invention - line everyone up with said heavy spear and charge. The thing we tend to view as the "lance" (long tapered thing to smack against shields) was a much later invention still. And you can't really do the whole heavy-cavalry-with-lance attack unless you have stirrups.

Before that, cavalry armies rather sensibly didn't so much frontal charge as swarm, encircle, skewer with arrows, wheel out of range and rinse and repeat until the infantry army was good and dead. Alexander the Great's cavalry carried these big heavy spears, which they would throw into enemy phalanxes from horseback before things like chariot archers and heavy infantry would come into play.

And everybody had some sort of sword like stabby thing to defend oneself if you were surrounded, or had gotten into close combat.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 pm 
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aelfwine wrote:
The thing we tend to view as the "lance" (long tapered thing to smack against shields) was a much later invention still.
It pretty much developed from a simple spear used by horsemen into the lance that was used for jousts. Jousts were, in fact, the main place where lances were used, as it would be rather difficult to put away your lance after a charge. It isn't a simple case of strapping it back to the side of the horse, as the rider would have been thrown off his horse by then. The only practical option would be to leave out the lance altogether, as once bogged down in combat a lance becomes to long and bulky to be fielded in close range.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Yep

Lance is just the french word for spear.

The Normans invented the long heavy spear "couched" under your arm tactic. (Reinvented, more like). They also used tournaments and tourneys as weapon drill. They also had a cute habit of running training tourneys with edged weapons. Apparently someone crunched the numbers and figured you'd lose more soldiers in battle if you didn't train them like that.

This all makes a lot more sense if you realise that the Normans were a bunch of French speaking vikings.

(For many years, too, people thought that those big tapered lances were designed to break on impact, maybe with a dry or hollow core. After all, they reasoned, what sort of deranged morons would charge at each other on huge warhorses with a massive spear thing in their hands? Nope, those were massive spears, and the medieval equivalent of the FA Cup final was competed for by deranged morons. We have so much to be thankful to the Normans for.)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:21 am 
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I know that it isn't a reliable source but I play Rome Total War and the dacian falxmen wield a weapon that seems to be the same thing as the elven glaive.
Warlord games also sells them as miniatureshttp://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/dacian-warriors-180-c.asp
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:23 pm 
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aqan wrote:
I know that it isn't a reliable source but I play Rome Total War and the dacian falxmen wield a weapon that seems to be the same thing as the elven glaive.
Warlord games also sells them as miniatureshttp://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/dacian-warriors-180-c.asp


They are not real glaives, as previously mentioned, but long-bladed two-handed swords.

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