This^!!!

I think it's only fitting ask your favourite films from recent years. What do you compare Jackson to?

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"When the god had in mind the making of a world through a word (logos) his first thought was Athena"

I was worried going to see the movie after reading all the negative things over the internet but I really enjoyed it. For me it is a level lower than the lotr trilogy but so was the book, I think the next 2 movies will be on par with the 3 lotr ones.

Thorins character was amazing he instantly became my second favourite middle earth character. Just two things from the movie left me a little disappointed that would be the Goblin Kings "that'll do it" line before his death was just so cheesey and the Radagast warg chase scene.I wasn't opposed to the bunny sleigh I liked it actually but the cgi on that scene in particular really took be out of middle earth. Minor problems I thought were the stone giant scene felt a bit much and the 3 stooger qualities of the trolls but nothing too bad in the end.

I enjoyed Azog, he had me worried most by the hate he received online but it wasn't too bad and he was quite frightening. Can't wait to see Bolg though he has badass written all over him.

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We haven't had the last 2 hobbit films so I am waiting for those before I judge the entire trilogy. Changes that did not make sense in the first film MAY make sense in the other two.

I was kinda being sarcastic when I said that. It was clear from the first LotR what attitude in general Jackson was taking, generally choosing to use special effects and violence to propel the plot with dialogue and character development often used to back up those elements. So we have black riders storm the gates of Bree in the first to add a bit of action, Haldir comes to Helms Deep to show elves in the second film, Faramir takes Frodo to Osgiliath to show some fighting there in the third, Azog gets revived to acts as a secondary antagonist for Thorin until we meet Smaug. You see what I mean? In each film the same technique is ued only it becomes a greater and greater revision of the characters as the opportunity to depict special effects and violence increases.

It's certainly not a technique developed by Jackson, he's not the first and unfortunately will not be the last. One could make a rather convincing argument that the entire film of Avatar was an excuse to show off advances in digital movie making. A weak, predictable plot that plays exactly as countless other stories before it with cardboard cut out characters nevertheless is used to display new CGI techniques. The issue is that these developments in CGI and 3D often take the place of character complexity and development rather than being used to advance it. I predict that this will be an aspect of the second and third instalments of the Hobbit just as it was in the first and in LotR. I don't think Jackson has the ability to do otherwise, just like James Cameron. Now I can't know this, I was hopeful going into Hobbit that he had developed new techniques, but based on the first film I'm now quite certain.

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"When the god had in mind the making of a world through a word (logos) his first thought was Athena"

My opinions on the hobbit (I watched it in 2D by the way):

Things I didn't like:
Over-actioned. It really felt like PJ was just trying to cram as much action into the film as possible. The company seemed to just jump from one dangerous situation to the next. For this reason I think it lost lots of realism and epicness that FotR had. I do understand that PJ is trying to draw in the crowds with an action film but it's rather annoying for a fanboy like me.

Made-up friction between characters. The company abandoning Gandalf at rivendell made me a bit cheesed off. Also, the dwarves open dislike of Bilbo, at least in the book they tolerated him and in thier own way cared for him... they seem to want to leave him behind at any possible time in the film.

The inaccuracy of the film in certain parts.

Dol Guldor. I just found the moving statue part and the whole 'un-dead' thing kinda dumb.

Azog. I think he didn't really need to be in some scenes... I was rather looking forward to seing talking wargs and the warg chief. Also his metal claw thing I just found weird. Although I do understand he gives more plot to the story.

Too much of Galadriels telepathy.

Over-effective fighting. (especially when Oin swing his staff around his head and he kills oodles of goboes)



Things I did like:

The stunning scenery and the CGI. I found the visuals especially stunning in this film and the CGI was generally top notch.

The elves. Elrond and his friends I thought were awesome!!

The riddles in the dark scene. Quite humourus and you can see the brilliance of both actors in this part. Really, really well done I thought.

Everything in Hobbiton. When the music started playing and it pictured the shire and Bag-End I just wanted to shout ''I'm in middle earth again!!!''. Also this really helped to connect the Hobbit with LoTR (such as Bilbo's party and Frodo running off to suprise Gandalf)

The starting bit when the dwarves are in their mountain. Awesome. Really awesome. I had shivers running all down me it was so awesome.

Conclusion: Overall it was a very good film and I did enjoy it, but I think PJ has changed it too much to be as good as The Fellowship of the Ring

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'Though my memory's fading, I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior'
-John Newton

The conclusion I draw from this is you either won't be seeing the next 2, or you're making it sound worse than it really is.


Personally, I think the Hobbit wasn't as good as LOTR, but it's great for sightseeing and a fanboy's delight.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

All of this.

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

I was really bothered by Galadriel's "teleportation". Though not explicitly shown the fact that she vanished on Gandalf like that leaves little doubt. I know her telepathy is over done a bit but they really are trying to convey to the general audience how powerful she is. Personally I think Cate's performance is enough to do that if her lines were written well enough.

I thought the Stone Giant scene was completely useless. Not a single person in the audience would think there was even a slight chance of one of the Company being lost there, so why do it except to 'show off'. Having them present, throwing the stones, etc. could have been fine but the whole part where they are separated and then...OMG...did half of them including the main character just get squished!?!? Oh, they're safe! I was so worried. /sarcasm

I thought the Trolls were done better than a direct book portrayal would have been. I thought it was pretty lame how the Dwarves were all captured so easily in the book and think they did a good, fun job of the whole thing. I had been warned about a Three Stooges effect but really didn't think it was nearly that bad.

I didn't take it as them dissing Gandalf in Rivendell though I guess it could be interpreted that way. To me it just seemed more like the Dwarves had what they wanted and decided to get going. I actually saw the scene as Gandalf knowing (in his own way) that they were going to leave early and to a degree stalling the Elves attention away so they could leave without further discussion.

The reading of the map seemed a bit stupid for a number of reasons, but it pulled off ok. The revelation that the WK's body had been entombed (WTH?!?!) and Galadriel's sudden ability to teleport distracted me too much to be bothered with most else in Rivendell.

The bunny sled wasn't as bad as I thought it would be except for the actual chase where he's trying to distract the hunters. The sled just seemed false and out of place on the terrain on the distance shots. Maybe they should have had someone drive around in an ATV or something to give it better perspective? This was the only such effect that I really didn't think looked good. It may be better in 2D normal frame rate?

Radagast was fair, but I'm still disappointed by some of his portrayal. Specifically I think the birds living (and pooping) under his hat was just not needed. Take out that little gag and give him a little more power at recognizing and countering the evil effecting the forest and he would have been a more believable Istaril rather than a space cadet that's probably had too much mushroom tea.

The Dwarves were all much better than I thought. A little focused character development (which could have been deeper but was ok) rather than try to spread it across all of them was a good choice, IMO. I am glad there was no reference to and almost no visibility to the axe-in-the-head which I was worried would be a running gag.

In the film the goblins looked MUCH better than GW's models led me to believe. They almost appeared and moved saw unarmored versions of what we saw in Moria. In fact I liked most of the Goblin Town sequence except a few points...

The Front Porch was stupid. It was supposed to be a secret entrance but the trap door effect made no sense. There isn't nearly enough traffic that would take that path and then happen to hang out in that cave to justify it as a practical trap door, and having a door like that (which relies on being properly covered by dirt when closed) makes no sense as a secret entry way. There would have been nothing wrong with keeping with the original story of having the Dwarves surprised by overwhelming numbers of Goblins coming from the secret door in the back. This is what happens to them all when they finally reach the end of the slide anyway. The only difference is I think they wanted the exciting 3D woosh down the slide. Not needed.

Why didn't Orcrist and Glamdring glow?

Great Goblin's death (and fall) were each weak points.

The fall through the cave on the collapsing scaffolding (and the 'surprise' at the end) pushed the suspension of disbelief too far for my personal tastes, but I admit several people around me in the theater really liked it. meh.

Riddles was great, but WHY did he do the ol "flying ring lands on the finger" gag again? It was weak in FotR and dumb in context. Maybe trying to show a link? Fail. Gollum could have went off to find the Ring, Bilbo slips it on casually and disappears, Gollum comes back. I think they wanted a traditional chase of Gollum after Bilbo rather than the more creative reverse chase of invisible Bilbo following a Gollum who THINKS he's following Bilbo.

Overall though, I enjoyed the film. Don't take these as saying I hated the film by any stretch. There are bound to be disappointments. The Nazgul's activity in Bree, Theoden and Faramir's major character changes, loss of the Gray Company and Erkenbran, these are all things that still bug me about the LotR films, but at the same time I really love watching them for what they are and what they give.

The Hobbit, especially with the expanded universe PJ is pulling in, is a film I really enjoyed. I hope to have a chance to see it again in the theaters (in 2D this time) and I am really looking forward to when it's available for home. I can't wait to see what extra little bits are added with the extended version and to watch, rewatch and then watch again any behind the scenes specials. I will still cringe every time I watch it for certain things I mention above, just as I cringe to this day over some of the issues in the LotR adaptations. But no film will EVER match the expectations of people that love the story first as a good book.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

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I wondered about the exact same thing. Thing is, I never wondered about it in LOTR. Funny thing you noticed it too this time.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

Thats one of the things that annoyed me through the whole Moria scene in the movie and I made it a point when I watched The Hobbit to see if they still neglected the glow. Maybe its an ego issue with PJ he forgot it in the LOTR so he told them to keep it off for the new movies?

He forgot about it in LotR, so he left it out for some continuity. I also don't get why people don't like Galadriel's telepathy. In both the book and the movie, she telepathically talked to the members of the Fellowship, and in the movie she talked with Elrond from hundreds of miles away. As for the dwarves leaving Gandalf, they said rather explicitly that Thorin and Gandalf planned it that way.

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I must not have really registered the explicit plan to depart Rivendell like that, so thanks.

It's not that I have a problem with her communicating telepathically. That is one of her traits. But to do it for no reason when you're face to face? For the times you don't want others to hear you or when you are separated by distance, yes. But personally I didn't think the telepathy was the biggest issues. As I mentioned for myself it was her sudden ability to teleport.

Regarding the sword glows, did it ever get mentioned in some of his comentary that it was forgotten in FotR? He seemed pretty honest in those so I wouldn't be surprised to hear him say he missed it, but I don't recall. Of course, I haven't watched the films with the comentary on for a LONG time (though I watch the 'extras' disks more often).

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

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Really, Glamdring should also have glowed at Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith right? Not sure what to think of that, but Glamdring in all the films and Orcrist in The Hobbit had a lot more use. Maybe with all the swinging around they thought it would be too difficult to cgi in a blue glow?

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

I don't remember where I saw that, I think it was TORn or something. He just forgot about it in LotR.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

I find it interesting that everyone assumes she teleported away, (back to Lothlorien I assume.) I assumed right away that she had just slipped away, and is still in Rivendell. Elves can be very stealthy when the want to be....

I think with everything CGI flying around in the movie, a glowing sword really wouldn't be much of an issue.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

Probably true, especially considering PJ's crew are at the top of their field. I can't think of any other explanation than "screw it" though

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Look at all the light sabers in SW:II (the rescue at the arena especially) and SW:III. It had to be an oversight or a case of "we're just not doing it".

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I'm almost positive that PJ didn't have Glamdring and Orcrist glow in the Hobbit because he wanted to keep things consistent with LotR, in which he completely forgot about making Glamdring glow, like Draugluin said.