I see you've put a lot of effort into this, so already for that, I take my hat off!
I'll try and read a bit into it, but I'm afraid I won't be using the rules myself, as I prefer a bit bigger games.

Brilliant, all my issues are cleared up so once again I'd like to say well done! Maybe I can persuade my girlfriend to play now I have solid rules for smaller games. We can play in Kardashians ad breaks

Hello, everyone.

So these rules have been out for a bit and I am working on updating them to include the Desolation of Smaug releases and fill a couple of other holes and I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to try out some games of Battle Companies. My son and I have played half a dozen games of his Dwarves against my Angmar force. So far, he's had an easy time with it because I can't seem to roll higher than a two, but we are having fun and the new scenarios seem to be working okay. If any of you have given this a whirl, I'd love to hear how it went, and whether you have any suggestions to improve the next edition.

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

Hi Erunion,

My brother and I got a few games in over the Christmas period. He's dwarves and I'm barad-dur. The first two he crippled me easily and the third was a draw but we've played two games since you released this supplement and we used your scenarios.

I being miles behind in the bc rating (I had three re-rolls for the fourth battle, that's how bad I was doing!), I decided to use the treasure hunt one because I reckoned if I could hold at least one or two of the tokens, I'd have a chance to win due to the random winning conditions. Killing dwarves with lowly orcs is nearly impossible especially with my general dice rolling!!

Anyway due to some good luck and the only good dice roll being the final, most important one, I got my first win after four games and finally got to upgrade some of my guys. My brother seemed to upgrading his guys every few minutes!!

Next up we played Contest of Champions and I'd pretty much conceded defeat from the get go but due to a full battle of phenomenal dice rolls and woeful rolls from my brother, I had resounding victory!! Well to be fair, I chose the wrong guy to be champion but I kept killing his champions, so I ended up winning with minus points!! And thanks to a horrendous after game sequence of rolls, my brother lost a khazad guard, his main hero and dwarf ranger miss the next game and one of his other heroes rolled lost in battle!!

So next up is rescue and I have a full company complete with a newly promoted morannon hero. I don't think my brother will enjoy this one!!

Sorry for rambling but summing up, I'm loving BC. It suits us at the mo as well because of time constraints when my bro is home. I also really like your scenarios as well. I have a list of the scenarios that GW released with the original BC, I think. We played some of those for our first games, but I found yours to a little more enjoyable although I'm sure the GW ones could be tweaked or improved with special rules and the like.

If you want any other info or have any specific questions on our games, feel free to ask. And thanks again for your wonderful supplement.

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2014 Backlog Reduction Oathtaker (3 points)

You might want to check the thread on the RPG style LotR campaign. He has a nice idea for using skill trees for upgrades to heroes. Since in the Battle Companies rules the upgrades are random this can sometimes lead to not very balanced (or useful) upgrades. You could consider adopting a similar system of skill trees to balance this out.

I'm planning to use your BC ruleset in a upcoming campaign between a friend and me.
I guess it's very easy to use them in larger battles?

(we'll play rohan vs isengard campaign were our two warbands are a must to take in the point costs and they'll be always at the wrong place at the wrong time... coincidence )

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The men of Dale are fighting a battle with my brush at the moment.
3 guys will never know the grey again... rest in peace

@Zirak-Zigil -- Sounds like you guys are having fun with the rules, which is exactly as I intended! I did try to make some scenarios so that even the underdog has a chance of pulling off an upset win, as you just proved. My only question is whether you guys found anything unclear or something that just didn't feel right.

@Laevos -- I have read through that thread, but I think that makes things a little more complicated that the traditional Battle Companies model. Also, please note that if you roll a Special Rule that your Hero cannot use (because of wargear limitations or whatever) you may select any other rule on that same table. This is in the section about calculating experience, at the end of the first paragraph.

@belgiumfire -- Yes, it is very easy to incorporate a Battle Company into a standard points match battle. Simply use the Battle Companies Effective Company Rating as it's point cost and treat it as one of your warbands. In fact, I am thinking of writing up a campaign in which all of the warbands in your army are Battle Companies and progress in that manner.

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

I do remember that something cropped up last time we played but I can't for the life of me think what it was now!! I seem to think it may have been a general rule problem rather than a BC one. However from now on I'll jot down any issues or queries and let you know. I think the bro is home this weekend, so we should get a game in unless he's adamant on avoiding his hero dying for good!!

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2014 Backlog Reduction Oathtaker (3 points)

I am thinking of making 4 BC's using your rules update pack and putting them through the test with bat-reps to go with them (easy to see where things may be rocky that way). I have not yet decided which armies nor how I will mix them up, but I will let you know how that progresses. If all works out I will link to your rules sites on my Battle Reports so that interested members can swing over and get them.

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http://www.sithious.webs.com

@Zirak-Zigil -- Any feedback you might have is very welcomed.

@Sithious -- That's awesome. I look forward to hearing how everything goes. If I can help in any way, just let me know.

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

I love these rules. I was actually just looking for this type of ruleset as I was a huge fan of WFB Warbands which is basically this.

I was just curious as to how you set up bow limitations. I saw Arnor got 50% but some of the other well known factions, Harad and easterlings, didn't get the bump up as well?

Is the promotion of Abrakhan warrior to abrakhan raider correct or is it supposed to become an abrakhan guard?

Edit
I noticed for Harad you have the options of getting Abrakhan and Karna Warriors. I'm thinking that since their is a limited model selection for black Numenoreans, you could find a way for their promotions to include venomblade knights and Castellans of Umbar. You could also do this with Easterlings to gain access to Black dragon warriors and Kataphrakts.

I have been playing with these rules solo and enjoying them very much. I am impressed with the amount of effort you have put into them. However I have some questions:

1. Why do the elves simultaneously have to expend four gold per reinforcement and have a 1-2 chance of failure? I understand that you would want to limit their numbers, but they are already a fragile force to play in BC and now have to use 6 gold if they don't want to risk losing 4 gold. Perhaps one of these measures could be implemented and the other not?

2. On a similar note, why does the gundabad hunters company not require 4 gold per reinforcement? Their entire army has increased attacks on foot which alone would make them dangerous, but they also can promote those troops to heroes while virtually every other similar unit, like morgul stalkers, Iron Guard, sons of Eorl etc. cannot. Personally, I would take away the many blades rule from the individual troops for purposes of the battle company and make it a rule their heroes can take instead of rolling on the chart.

3. Finally, could there be some method for said increased attack troops to advance in some way? I have been playing angmar and have two morgul stalkers. However, they gain an outside share of kills meaning it takes a long time for my troops to get promoted, and it feels wrong they should get no reward for doing so well. Perhaps some slight stat increases, like to defense or courage, after they gain a certain amount of XP?

Sorry if I was getting nitpicky there. I really love these rules and I am having lots of fun with them! Looking forward to the DoS warbands!

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"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Greetings, guys. I'm glad you guys are enjoying the Battle Companies rules. I'll try to address some of your questions below:

@KhaosRising

I forgot to add the 50% bow limit for the Harad BC, so I'll fix that in the next edition. I'm not seeing anywhere in the Fallen Realms book that would indicate that the Easterlings also have a 50% bow limit. Do you have a page reference for that rule?

The Abrakhan Warrior to Abrakhan Raider promotion is the proper progression.

I had already seen that I had missed the Black Dragon upgrades, so those will be in the next edition. I also added in the Venomblade Knights for the Black Numenoreans, but left out the Castellans of Umbar because the Black Numenorean BC is supposed to represent those in Minas Morgul, not Umbar.

This is great feedback. This is a large project (with the new update there will 30 different Battle Companies), so it is easy to miss things here and there. Thanks for the suggestions!

@ VandalCabbage

1) The intention with the 4 Gold requirement and the 33% chance of failure was intended to represent that the Elves are a fading race, and that they do not reproduce as quickly or as frequently as other races. It is interesting that you say that the Elves are a fragile BC, because I've always experienced them as rather powerful, both my own companies and those I've played against. In a small-scale game like BC, higher Fight values can be very useful.

2) The Gundabad Hunters were supposed to have the 4 Gold requirement like the other Warg Rider company. I'll add that in. The "Many Blades" did mess with my system (as did the new Mirkwood Rangers), but I left them as is because GW has decided that they are fair & balanced for their points cost. I have avoided using anything other than official profiles for the Battle Companies because I want to avoid charges of imbalance and keep Battle Companies easy to integrate into full-size armies. If there are any imbalances in BC, they are inherent with the design of the game rather than because of my own tinkering.

3) Part of the reason that I have avoided allowing 2 Attack models from being able to become Heroes is because I don't want to mess with the points balance. The fact that your Morgul Stalkers are sniping some kills does slow down the development of your BC somewhat, but that should be offset by the fact that you should have a greater chance of winning the battle, gaining extra XP for your Heroes and more Gold for reinforcements. As always, if you wanted to change the rules for your gaming group, please feel free to do so!

I hope that helps you guys, and please keep the feedback coming!

On a more general note, I've been making a lot of progress on this project, and hope to have the updated edition out by the end of this month!

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

The one time I played against elves they took heavy losses and only won because I forgot the changed rules for courage. - but I can understand your reasoning.
However, I think it should not be so much up to chance - maybe 5 gold per reinforcement and on a 1 fails?
Glad to hear about the hunter orc thing. As an army I think they aren't broken because their list is so limited but this isn't a factor in BC so they seem a bit OP. I have never played with or against them though so I was merely speculating. Perhaps a cap on hero attacks at 2 to stop them getting 4 attacks though?
Also, could there be an option for heroes to drop wargear, especially bows, they don't want? This would be similar to how warriors are retired.
Could you give Erebor a wargear option for two-handers? Grimhammers get them but it seems the leadership can't. Finally, some wargear options should say "warriors of (x)" and heroes only - dwarf rangers shouldn't be able to take spears for example.
About the black numenorians - they live for long periods of time (at least Mr Mouth does) so maybe they could have travelled?
And as for Easterlings, it was FAQ'ed that they could have 50% bows, but they weren't allowed to take kataphracts as well.
Looking forward to the next update!

Edit: On the subject of Black numenorians, why do they have their own company? It just seems a but strange since they are elites. I would have made a fiefdoms sort of company with one BN who has to be the Leiuanant and the rest orcs, with a reinforcement tree based around mordor orcs, trackers and stalkers. It just seems strange to give such a powerful unit their own company, especially because of the easy access to morgul knights. Perhaps their low numbers (they are merely the remnants of Castamir's pureblood rebellion after all) should make them a candidate for 4 gold per reinforcement?

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Thanks again for the feedback! Here are my thoughts on your suggestions.

1) I disagree about the Elven Battle Companies, as it has never been a problem for us before, but if you want to tweak that feel free to do so!
2) I don't want to cap the Hunter Orc Heroes at a different rate than everybody else. They have a special rule built into their cost, which is why they will be different from everyone else.
3) Added a line to the paragraph about wargear stating that models may discard unwanted wargear.
4) Added Pick-hammers to the Erebor BC list, and put restrictions on the spears and shields.
5) Didn't know that the Easterlings had been FAQ'd. I've edited their BC to accomodate that.
6) That's an interesting though on the Black Numenorean BC. I've edited their BC to require 4 Gold on the Reinforcements table, because they ARE a relatively elite BC. I had not thought of doing a Fiefdoms-style list for them, but that is certainly an option if people find that the current list is over-powered.

Let me know if you see anything else that needs to be tweaked!

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

Awesome, that's very cool. The thing about war gear especially - I just might start an arnor list. You know the dunedain? Don't know if this was intended or not, but they can hit strength 5. BTW, should arnor or Barad-dur get heavy armour as an option for heroes for two gold? Some of their regular troops can take it. That's more a matter of theme though.
The thing about shields and spears actually applies to lots of battle companies though - what about angmar? Can morgul stalkers take shields? (I don't have the moria and angmar sourcebook).
All good man.

Edit, Just noticed, hobbit archers who are heroes don't have an option to become armed (are they still unarmed?) Might want a hand-weapon option, for (free)(Heroes Only)

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"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Hobbit archers are no longer unarmed (in fact, they're awesome).

Wonder how the bow-heavy armies will play out by the way. Last round of battle companies became quite boring when my Haradrim were simply able to shoot down some members of the enemy warband, mob the remaining guys 2:1, then were able to fight off a weakened company next round (even easier to out-shoot them) etc. But that may just have been an isolated incident.

So A few things, I think the 5 Gold and fail on 1 is better than 4Gold fail on 1-2. This way it still takes almost twice as long for them to recruit but still gives them a fair chance like everyone else.

For Black Numenoreans, you can always use Castellans of umbar as Castellans of Morgul. No sense denying a BC that is so low on models an extra model just because it has another area in its name

As for progression, I see it's skewed between some BCs.
Durin's folk for example has regular troops turning into iron hill vets and then iron hill vets into khazad guard. There's a few others like lorien and moria.

I feel like this could be used on a few other BCs.
Riders of rohan with a certain combination to Royal guard to sons of eorl.

Are we opposed to multiple progression choices?
Minas Tirith warrior with bow to Citadel guard or Ranger.
I feel like a haradrim warrior with spear has the same chances of being a serpent guard as he does an abrakhan warrior or haradrim raider. Same with haradrim warrior with bow, seems like it should go karna warrior then watcher instead of raider with bow unless it can choose raider or karna warrior.

And if not choosing a progression path, maybe a dice roll.

Also, I'm a bit confused about Isengard. Crossbow says Heroes and warriors only. Every model in a BC is either a hero or a Warrior. Was this intended to stop ferals and berserkers from getting crossbows? Same with the heavy armour option, uruk warriors all come with it standard so the hero only tag seems to be geared towards giving your uruk scout hero heavy armour.

I think the isenguard thing means "no scouts". They don't want another Vrashku. Why they don't want another one of him is beyond me...

About the shooting thing, it just seems unnaturally powerful in BC. The angmar list I've been using has two orc archers who are basically the next most dangerous thing after the stalkers. Even inaccurate archery can take a lutienant out of the game, and can thus change the outcome right from the start, whereas in regular games one wound will rarely be so decisive.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Hey, fellas. The whole wargear issue is that a Warrior cannot take an upgrade if it is not usually allowed in their profile. However, Heroes can purchase any kind of equipment as long as their "race" is allowed to have it. I have actually removed all of the wargear restrictions in the Equipment lists and highlighted the sentences in the main section of the rules that contains this information. It seems to have confused several people.

Promotions aren't necessarily a linear path, so there may not be an unbroken chain of Troop A->Troop B --> Troop C.

As far as shooting be overly powerful, I don't believe it is. ANY loss will hurt in games at this scale, so if your Lieutenant goes down you will be at a serious advantage. That said, it all evens out. I've played many, many games of Battle Companies and have never had that issue. My Orc archers can't ever seem to hit the broadside of a barn. On the other hand, I had a Warg Rider that was shot at or struck in combat 27 times in one game and never once took a wound. (By the way, Wogga "Ironhide" as he was called, became quite the nemesis for my opponent. In subsequent games, he just wanted to kill Wogga.) It happens.

_________________
Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies