If anyone has some input I'd like to talk about Trolls.
I use the following house rules.


Adjusted point values for trolls. Edited Jan31
60 - Cave Troll
85 - Mordor Troll
90 - Troll Drummer
95 - Isengard Troll
120 - Isengard Troll Captain
135 - Mordor Troll Captain
135 - Buhrdur

Cave Troll 60points
- Def 7 vs. shooting
- Two S6 Throwing attacks at 12" Range
Cheapest of the trolls and goes down easy. Throwing attacks not a big deal. 20 Points less than a Mordor Troll.

Mordor Troll 85points
- Def 8 vs. shooting
- Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range
Seconded weakest troll and a little harder to take down. Should be the benchmark for other Trolls/Monsters to be costed around. Can survive bow fire from long range. Ratio to cave trolls 3:4. Throwing attacks are decent.

Troll Drummer 90points
- Def 8 vs. shooting
- Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range
I think the Shield is better. The Drummer is usually trying to get the army moving quicker but since it cannot ATD its not a great upgrade. 10 points for a drummer is my command cost so I might aswell apply it here.

Isengard Troll95points
- Def 9 vs. shooting
- Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range
Extra defense helps. Can survive bowfire from any range. Every time you increase defense by two you are making them twice as hard to kill so 15 points seems more reasonable than 5points.

Isengard Troll Captain 120points
- Def 9 vs shooting
- Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range
A mighted Isengard Troll for 25 points sounds right. You can have two Cave trolls for one of these.

Mordor Troll Captain 135points
- Def 9 vs shooting
- Three S8 Throwing attacks at 16" Range
For 15 more points than an Isengard Troll Captain you get one more Strength, Inspiring Leader (Trolls) and the Troll Charge Special rule. Strength works pretty much the same were every two points you hit twice as often.

Buhrdur 135points
- Def 7 vs shooting
- Two S6 Throwing attacks at 12" Range
A glorified cave troll but with some great rules. I never played him but seems like a good tool to have.

_________________
http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.

Fifteen pts for a shield? Way over priced. All you're doing is adding 1 point of defence.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Since most units are Strength 3, instead of hitting your Troll on 6's... they are hitting on 6(4)'s with one company. You need two hits to wound and with that one point defense your odds are doubled.

Chance to wound twice on Defense 7
66%
Chance to wound twice on Defense 8
33%

So your troll is twice as hard to kill for an extra 10%. I'd take the Isengard Troll everytime and who wouldn't.

_________________
http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.

Do you always play using these house rules?

I would say 10pts for the shield at most and 5 for the drummer. Also, I have use Burhdur, I believe he took at about 200-230ts of troops before getting killed.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Hi Slythar - just a comment: I think that what we pay for Isengard Troll Captains is about right, certainly within a coy of troops of the 'correct' cost. So maybe 120-150. Your rules (do you also double the effect of fight? I get mixed up amongst all of you) make them a little better than I am used to as well.

If anything, I think you may have under-price the defense margin but this is still with the usual H2K/VH2K table so a random but significant chance of just dying right there and it is a wash?

Buhrdur I would index to the troll Captain's price (ie 120-150pts) then lower by your defense margin but charge +50pts for the might, ambush plus two Epic Actions. His ability to duel is very useful and ambush + 8" move ATD means he can make good use of it. So you end up with 155ish points.

YMMV

_________________
http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

I do believe that the changes would benefit the normally swiftly-killed trolls. Not by making them that much harder to kill in combat, but by making them more difficult to down in shooting. Overall, I think it is very effective- a nice method of changing it up and making a system more efficient.

_________________
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”

Thanks for the input. I'm leaning towards the 10 more points for the shields so I'll bump the Mordor Troll up to 85 and leave the rest.

The Hard to Kill chart really makes monsters a gamble. You never know if they'll last or go down first round.

If you had a choice between Buhrdur or a Mordor Chieftain, which would you choose not factoring points. I think its pretty even and can make a case for both although if you put 10 vs 10, I think the Mordor Captains would win. (That might be a fun scenario)

_________________
http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.

So I changed the topic subject instead of starting new thread. Next I'd like to cost the Khandish Chariots in relation to the trolls.

Pros over Trolls
+ Have bows
+ Move farther

Cons
- Cannot throw boulders
- Much Less Defense
- King upgrade is still only Hard to Kill

Cancel each other out
- Less Strength but have 2-H Weapons
- Less fight but more dice for charging and more attacks

So I cost them like this

80 Khandish Charioteer
110 Khandish King

Thoughts? Thanks!

_________________
http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.