cavalry

mastermanje · **Posted:** Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:13 am

first of all, i think the GW should have to make cavalry much stronger, your cavalry is realy going to die when charged.
aside that, I have a question: is my 2000 points army to fragile if i spend 900 points on cavalry and command for them?

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

You can make a whole army with cavalry if it is follow the rules...

mastermanje · **Posted:** Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:30 am

I know, but I'm interested if you think my army would be outmanouvred to quick

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

If the enemy has no pikes cavalry can be very effective... Especially if you attack first...

mastermanje · **Posted:** Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:43 pm

okay, thanks, otherwise I'll flank charge

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

I did a thousand points with no infantry once and it really surprised me how resilient I was.

mastermanje · **Posted:** Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:09 pm

sounds nice, I'll kill my enemies with my strenght 4 dol amroth cav + lances

Killerkatanas · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:52 am **Posts:** 182

Much of the problem with cavalry is because of how they are based. They are on a large round base, and this will only allow two figures to be on a stand, effectively giving it half the combat damage absorbtion that a foot company has.

Ideally if cavalry was mounted 4 to a stand then they would be much better. This would have been possible if they used regular Warhammer Fantasy basing (on square bases), but the round one is just to big, If the stand was made double deep this could solve it.

I think their attacking power is too artificially increased to make up for the size of the base and the lack of figures on one.

Brian

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

I agree, but there wasn't a whole lot of options.

GW made the skirmish size SBG years before WotR and skirmish type games kinda want round bases, so LotR figs are on round bases. When WotR was being designed, I am pretty sure backward compatibility was one of the primary requirements, so the game had to be designed to do ranked blocks of soldiers that are mounted on round bases. That's why we have the kind of movement trays that we do and why formations have a specific number of models per company. When it came to cavalry they were stuck with how many could fit in the space and designed the game with that in mind.

Truthfully I don't mind. What you think about when you think cavalry is a devastating cavalry charge, not staying power, and that is what the rules manage to represent. Good on the offense, but if you just want staying power, go with the infantry.

Killerkatanas · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:52 am **Posts:** 182

Of course, giving them a resiliance of 4 would also do the same thing.

or

make some changes to the game rules, like cavalry takes half the normal damage versus foot, unless they are armed with pikes.

Brian

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:34 pm

I think the weakness of cavalry on the defense is acceptable for WotR and is really no different than cavalry in SBG. In that system you had to charge after your opponent committed to their movements and then get the heck out of range before they could counter charge you next turn. Otherwise even a basic Orc could take out your (usually D3) horse and leave you with an overpriced infantry model.

The fact that Cav have additional attacks, get more dice on the charge, have a better chance of nailing a flank or rear charge, often have lances available, and deal damage before Infantry means that a properly executed cavalry attack (or multiple attacks) means that a strong enough Cav attack should leave the Infantry formation in a much weaker point to retaliate, and Resilience 2 is actually pretty good (ignoring those odd hits can add up over the course of a game). In reality it may not work out that way very often, but I have personally had a lot of success with Warg Rider, Serpent Rider and Harad Raider formations so far in WotR, and none of those are really the elite cavalry that Morgul Knights or KoDA can be. When your Cav face a much larger or tougher Formation, or you are counter charged, or surrounded then you will loose models, but that was the nature of cavalry in SBG as well and really is the nature of cavalry in reality. You need to either be moving outside the range of your foe or you need to be hitting hard.

mastermanje · **Posted:** Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:59 pm

hihi, I got some idea!
rear charge your opponent and hopefully you will make enough hits to give them so much casualties that they aren't touching you when they can strike :lol:

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:02 pm

That's really a key tactic. If you can attack a Formation at the rear or flank then (1) they have a Fight penalty returning strikes at you (probably less dice) and (2) you are hitting them without their benefit of shields so you can do more damage. With your extra dice on the charge, plus lances, and maybe an Epic Hero, Fortune or spell providing some other benefits three companies of Cavalry hitting the rear of an infantry formation can do a lot of damage and all those models are removed before they have a chance to return the strike.

This is one reason I've been having more luck with multiple smaller ( 2-4 companies ) formations of cavalry than with large ones. You have a better chance of getting a couple smaller ones in where you need them a lot of times than you may with a large one. And it's harder for an enemy to do critical damage to your army as a whole if they charge and take out just one such small formation. Assuming you give other options (large infantry blocks for example) for your opponent to worry about as well.

Obviously, easier said than done. Cavalry in WotR and SBG require very specialized handling and practice. Don't expect to get them right on your first couple games, and don't expect your opponent to make it easy for you or fail to adapt to the new tactics.

Xelee · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:39 pm

Hi mastermanje,

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Cavlary. I love cav but hate it every-time I get sucked into replicating Faramir's attempt to re-take Osgiliath because I thought it would look cool. See the below report for how I suggest running a Cav-heavy army.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19452

I like them as a support arm too. Units set back behind the line, with space to charge forward make excellent counter-chargers and do a good job of teaming up (even if you only get one cav base in contack) with infantry to win combats and then leverage heroic-fights.

Cheers

Erunion · **Posted:** Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:12 am

@Xelee: I also finding myself making tactical decisions on the tabletop because "it would look so stinking cool.". That is part of the fun for me! I especially have this problem in 40K. In LotR I get in trouble because I want to role-play all my games (i.e. Charging into unwise places because that's what Gimli would have done!)

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:15 pm

Those plans never seem to work in practice though do they.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:46 pm

Erunion wrote:

@Xelee: I also finding myself making tactical decisions on the tabletop because "it would look so stinking cool.". That is part of the fun for me! I especially have this problem in 40K. In LotR I get in trouble because I want to role-play all my games (i.e. Charging into unwise places because that's what Gimli would have done!)

A friend of mine told me his biggest frustration when he was first learning SBG: He put Gimli with his back against the wall (so he couldn't be flanked, he said) against a few Orc. He lost the Fight with an unlucky roll and was dumbfounded when the Orcs got double rolls for surrounded. :shock:

I don't recall if he was killed outright or not but if not it was close.

It's often disappointing when you try something directly from a film/story or something that's themed, in character or just "seems cool". Only to find the rules totally thrash you in return. :sad:

Been there...done that...will do it again...

Erunion · **Posted:** Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:05 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

Been there...done that...will do it again...

Sadly, so will I. I must be asking for it...

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