I keep getting crushed by a Fallen Realms player his current list is:

Khamul(Joins the Halftrolls)
The Betrayer(Joins Arbalesters)

4c Easterlings w/Pikes and Dragonknight
3c of Easterlings w/Pikes and Dragonkinght
3c Kataphrakts w/Shields and Dragonknight

2c of Hafltrolls w/Two handed weapons
3c Arbalesters

My last list has was:

The Tainted
The Dwimmerlaik
Khamul

4c Carn Dum w/Hornblower
4c Carn Dum w/Hornblower
5c Morannon Orcs w/Shields

Shade
Burhdur

I was trying to be a jerk with that list(seriously, every evil player around here uses Khamul!). I'll admit he lucked out with Priority rolls and the number of hits for Black Dart and Easterlings are pretty cool, but the Wraiths and their respective units are WTF good. Khamul seriously covers up Halftrolls' weakness and the Betrayer makes the crossbows dumb good. We are currently at 1k points.

The models I have are:

9c Carn dum/Ghostly Legion
4c Ghostly Riders
6c Morannon/Angmar orcs w/shields
2c Court of the Fallen Kings
2 Shades
Dwimmerlaik
Tainted
Khamul
Witchking
Gulahvar
Burhdur
Kardush
The Beastcaller
2 Misty Mtn Cave Trolls

Angmar is by far the hardest army to play effectively. I don't have a lot of advice for you since I haven't actually played them yet, but here it goes.

Do you have access to Battlehosts? The Angmar spirit battlehost is probably the best in the game because it seems designed to compensate for the army's shortcomings instead of add new power. If you can, you should take it.

If he is putting Khamul in a formation of only 2 companies that HAS to be your priority. Don't let any of your expensive formations close enough for him to bounce hits into them unless they are specifically a sacrificial unit. I'd probably try 9 cmps of Angmar orcs (I know, you don't have 9 right now, but I would recommend using some proxies or getting more) with your own Khamul and the Tainted. Strength from corruption both you and his half trolls, enfeeble his half trolls and visions of woe his half trolls. If you can pull off a sunder spirit on the half trolls too that would be good. With the tainted close enough to them they are stuck with the half trolls lousy courage and so should fail the tests, averaging 6 auto hits on them. Yeah, his Khamul will bounce a couple of them, so what. He kills 2 of your 72 orcs (alright, you killed 3 more with the strength from corruption), you kill 2 of his 16 half trolls. In combat, if you can get 3 (of 9) cmps fighting directly that should be 36 attacks. If your orcs have buffed with SfC they are hitting on 4+ so 18 hits, Khamul bounces 6 and you kill 6 half-trolls. Even if you hits with all of his attacks you come out ahead in that exchange, and that doesn't even count your own khamul bouncing hits back.

Alternately, use both Nazgul's Strength from Corruptions on his Half Trolls. With the tainted close enough, sunder spirit once or twice, 2 visions of woe, 2 strength from corruptions should kill at least one company of half trolls. If your worried about the Strength of that unit then, consider they tainted is lowering their courage so they are unlikely to pass terror checks. If you have priority you could also transfix them, preventing Khamul from leaving the formation that turn, then if you can get priority next turn as well you can hit them again before Khamul can leave.

All this is designed to take out a 200 point formations and a 125 point epic hero that most people think should be 200 points himself and you can do it with a 135 point formation (180 if you must give them shields) and a couple of epic heroes that, in a 9 cmp formation should be so well protected that they are in no danger.

I frequently hear players (frequently Fallen Realms players) say how they WANT me to attack formations with Khamul in them because the more I attack him the more hits they can bounce. I find this to be flawed thinking. The trick to dealing with Khamul isn't avoiding him, that doesn't actually deal with him, the trick is attacking his formation with so many dirt cheap troops that you don't care if he kills them. If your opponent is putting Khamul in a small formation of elite troops I see it as an opportunity to kill him quickly. If you can kill his most powerful hero, and some of his super elite troops, totaling a third of his points, and you only loose a tenth of your points in return you shouldn't have much trouble with the rest of his army.

I little comment on a 9 cmp formation of orcs, just in case you were worried about your nazgul being vulnerable yourself, if his ENTIRE ARMY directed ALL their attacks at your 9 cmps with khamul, statistically they still couldn't kill them in one turn.

An alternative strategy. With the tainted around, the spirit grasp ability of the ghosts looks very tempting. A few Sunder Spirits and you would be hitting virtually anything at effective def 3 or less. That means using your own expensive troops though, and with Khamul around that is dangerous.

That's my first impressions, but like I said, it is all theoretical. Without knowing specifically how he plays it is hard to provide any specific strategies. Even if you can't manage to kill all the half trolls before Khamul leaves them, once they don't have a hero their low courage means they shouldn't be able to charge any of your terror causing formations, so they are largely neutralized anyway.

Hope that helps some, it was kinda long winded.

Thank you for the very helpful post. The spirit legion is way too expensive for 1k points though. I have to spend at 740 points for the minimum size(one of the two wraiths, 3c Ghostly Legion, 2 Shades, 2 formations of 1 company of Spectral Hosts, and 75 points for the Host).

I'll try what you said considering 9c of Orcs though. I might have enough models, I just remember that I traded for a bunch a while back.

At 100opts, the Spirit Battelhost is prbably notthe best idea, its better at larger pts totals. Yes destroying the half trolls straight away is a good idea. Allying Druzhag the Beastcaller is a good idea, as is using Burdhur. If you plan on using any spirt troops your brobably better also allying a large block of Gundabads which you don't have. Using a Court of Fallen Kings against Khamul's trolls could be a good idea for a trap, as you strike at same time and count them as ressatance one, any bounced back hits go back. However you really need to take him dow in a duel. Take 2 ES heroes eg WK & burdur, have one duel him till he''s lost his mt, take ddwimmerlaik to help. Large block of Orcs & Barbarians would be good, give orcs two-handers. Against the Betrayers Arbalesters you really want something that strikes first so you can wipe them out, Ghostly Riders when your going second are a good idea it you spirit walk over him and strike from behind (make sure you're going second) thids way they also won't be able to shoot them the Tainted is useful for this. Don't use ghosts on foot as they're not fast enough and Betrayers rerolls atre at same time as you. Yes Angmar is probably the hardest to play, definately the hardest evil list, don;t despair you do have some good units and also, like your own trooops, most of the FR is also overcosted, the only exceptions are Nazgul, Arbalesters & Mumakil. But beware Dragon Knights.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Having actually played them quite a bit - Angmar is by far the hardest army to play effectively (aside from Elves, which almost goes without saying) when people don't use the good units in the list!

Nothing wrong with the lineup he had and doing things like that battlehost is something for those who just can't bring themselves to go the Carn Dum route. In terms of the list, the only issue IMO is not enough troops and too many heroes.

Tzeentchling9, my reaction from looking at your list is 'too much non-troop stuff'. The shade has to go from this lot and if I were to ally in a hero, it wouldn't be Khamul, it would be Thrydan. Then I think there needs to be an overall choice amongst the good heroes you have there - even even Thrydan + Two Wraiths + Buhrdur is a lot in heroes. This is not to say that any of those are not worth their points - just that you need more bodies to go with your darkness magic. If there is a THird Wraith, then Buhrdur has got to go, IMO.

Then, rather than having a lynchpin hero like Khamul (well you can still have him but don't baby him more than any other Wraith), focus on multiple mobile (that is hero led) melee units, with other slow (that is non-hero led) units to back them up and hold some enemy units while ganging up on others. If you can get to them first, I very much recommend dealing to the Arbalesters - those are vastly undercosted for how lethal they are and comboing in Betrayer makes it far worse. The name of the game is using darkness magic to ensure you get the charges you want, using Berserkers, and then dealing damage with magic is a secondary bonus or situational thing.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

So I beat the guy today using this list:

The Tainted
The Dwimmerlaik
Druzhag
4c Carn Dum w/Captain
4c Carn Dum
7c Gundabad Blackshields
Gulavhar

He overestimated his own units and made couple serious mistakes that I took full advantage of. He took priority on the first turn, rushed his Halftrolls and Kataphrakts to my lines and left them rather exposed, Palled a unit of Carn Dum that could have charge the Halftrolls, but burned might into order to try transfix the blackshields. I Palled both the Halftrolls and the Kataphrakts right away. Blackdarted the Dragonknight(lolz at R1 in a cav unit) charged them and cleaned up. The Blackshields flank charged the halftrolls and Gulavhar rear charged them, taking out Khamul and 6 Halftrolls by his lonesome. Blackshields cleaned up. His army kind of fell apart after that. Victory by outplaying you opponent still counts right?

We're going to 1250 points this weekend and I'm thinking of this list:

The Tainted 125pts
The Dwimmerlaik 125pts
Druzhag 100pts
4c Carn Dum w/Captain and Hornblower 185pts
4c Carn Dum 120pts
4c Ghostly Riders w/Captain 290pts
6c Gundabad Blackshields 120pts
3c Moria Goblins Warband w/Bows 60pts
Buhrdur 125pts

1250pts even. Only 280pts of 312pts in allies

Trade the Carn Dum Chieftain for Thrydan if you feel like it, then you get epic strike for free, if you need to to do so, drop a company of gobbos. I like your list though.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Hey, congrats on the victory.

As for the new list. I'm not a fan of moria goblin archers myself, the short bow just doesn't seem worth it to me. I would bump up the blackshields instead, if you don't want a 9 company formation, split it in 2 of 4 and 5 companies each.

Orcs have bows, cost the same and you don't have to ally them. Then you can fit your allied allotment and swap your Captain for Thrydan. Looking good.

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http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.