WOTR Army Restrictions Mark I (Outdated)

General Elessar · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:39 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Thanks, but could you expand on why your not partial to restrictions 2 to 6

#2, #4, and #6 seem a bit arbitary, while #3 and #5 are subject to personal opinion.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:10 pm

BlackMist wrote:

No cheesy combos - What is cheesy? Can you define? I don't even use that word because at a tournament level you will often find that every army in the top 10 (or so) is in some way using overpowered combos, underpriced units - does it mean it's cheesy? NO - it means the player knows how to exploit the game and get the most out of it. It means he's a powergamer? Perhaps. But most of all it means he knows the game so well and is such a good army builder that he deserves that spot. At the same time most of the time a player using the so called "Cheesy combos" an finishing high in a competition is also a good player, because otherwise his combo would be beaten by a better player not using any - that's just how the game works, a great player will always be better than a noob using overpowered combos found on the internet.

Well, seeing as this is a house rule and would not apply to tournaments I like it. I hate feeling like Aragorn, Gimli and a unit of Khazad Guard are a must-take in any Good force. Likewise, Khamul and Gothmog in an Evil one. The point is, if it's a fun game with your mates and nothing is at stake why bother going to all that trouble to incorporate the overpowered and undercosted units?

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:15 pm

Thankyou Lord Hurin, The two combos you mentioned where actually the two I was most concerned with.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Please see version two. Both of those combos are impossible too.

Xelee · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:17 pm

Lord Hurin wrote:

BlackMist wrote:

No cheesy combos - What is cheesy? Can you define? I don't even use that word because at a tournament level you will often find that every army in the top 10 (or so) is in some way using overpowered combos, underpriced units - does it mean it's cheesy? NO - it means the player knows how to exploit the game and get the most out of it. It means he's a powergamer? Perhaps. But most of all it means he knows the game so well and is such a good army builder that he deserves that spot. At the same time most of the time a player using the so called "Cheesy combos" an finishing high in a competition is also a good player, because otherwise his combo would be beaten by a better player not using any - that's just how the game works, a great player will always be better than a noob using overpowered combos found on the internet.

Well, seeing as this is a house rule and would not apply to tournaments I like it. I hate feeling like Aragorn, Gimli and a unit of Khazad Guard are a must-take in any Good force. Likewise, Khamul and Gothmog in an Evil one. The point is, if it's a fun game with your mates and nothing is at stake why bother going to all that trouble to incorporate the overpowered and undercosted units?

I agree, we pretty much only ever play with some version of houserules now. None of the other games we play gives such a significant role to certain combos so we tend to think they undermine the parts of WOTR that actually make it a good wargame. The only issue I have with using houserules is one of getting them widely accepted but I've found even a very 'light' set of guidelines can do a lot. AFAIK events (or the better community organised ones, anyway) generally have some sort of comp-scoring or list building guidelines in place, anyway.

In any case, no one considers WOTR a 'tournament' game around here. There are much better alternatives and we play WOTR because it is a fun 'Beer and Pretzels' game to play in the evenings.

There have been a couple of threads on Onering with suggestions and some good ideas in there.

Killerkatanas · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:52 am **Posts:** 182

I agree with Xelee on the subject of high point games (2000+). This is the level that I like to play (Well, currently at because nobody else can do 5,000+ points).

In recent posts of mine, I complained about several things, such as the Gimli/Aragorn/Dain Guard combo, the Gandalf as a Necromancer in the Fellowship cheese, the Epic Rampage Dain/Gimli ability, and the Heroic Duel stuff (which can be misused to wipe out a unit in additon to the leader). However, after playing more, and at 2,000 points, these complaints are not totally valid anymore.

I have been able to counter each of these through better buys, more troops, and better tactics. That is not to say they still do not happen. Gimli and Aragorn in Dains Guard still automatically kills 13, but even though they blasted through two full-strength units of 24 Morannon orcs without a loss to them, I was still able to eventually destroy them by using these troops as a delay tactic, allowing my bows and artillery to rain down hell on them. I was able to do the same to Dain, delaying him by throwing sacrificial units i his way. Gandalf was pretty much the same deal--throwing more troops at him to delay.

My point is that the points will even out when you play 2,000+ points. They certainly do not in low-point games.

Brian

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

Killerkatanas wrote:

Gimli and Aragorn in Dains Guard

Dain's guard? Did you mean Durin's?

gaarew · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:07 am

Rule 1 - Take whatever you want for either the fluff/theme/combo.

Rule 2 - If you play someone who doesn't enjoy your game, find out why, and either change your style, or find someone else to play.

Rule 3 - If you play someone and don't enjoy their game, explain why, and if they refuse to change their style, find someone else to play.

The aim of the game is to win, but the point of the game is to have fun. Everyone has a different interpretation of fun. A theme player will have a very different outlook to a competitive player. If two players don't both enjoy the game, and can't find an enjoyable middle ground, then it is time to look for new opponents.

General Elessar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:50 pm

gaarew wrote:

Rule 1 - Take whatever you want for either the fluff/theme/combo.

Rule 2 - If you play someone who doesn't enjoy your game, find out why, and either change your style, or find someone else to play.

Rule 3 - If you play someone and don't enjoy their game, explain why, and if they refuse to change their style, find someone else to play.

The aim of the game is to win, but the point of the game is to have fun. Everyone has a different interpretation of fun. A theme player will have a very different outlook to a competitive player. If two players don't both enjoy the game, and can't find an enjoyable middle ground, then it is time to look for new opponents.

Very well said! :yay:

If everyone played according to these rules, the majority of problems would be solved.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:51 pm

WILL PEOPLE PLEASE STOP COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD!

WOTR Army Restrictions Mark I (Outdated)

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