Take same Fate or Fortinue twice?

Rangefinder · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Can you elect to take Counterspell twice?

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

It doesn't seem to specify in th Rulebook or the FAQ.

However, the battlehosts expansion clarifies the position on page 5 saying:

"No Fortune or Fate can be duplicated in the same Army"

Rangefinder · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:55 pm

hmmmmm... interesting point.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:42 pm

No, you cannot ever take the same Fortune or Fate twice.

Telchar · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

No, you cannot ever take the same Fortune or Fate twice.

Not the battlehost ones, obviously, but the main ones?

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

No, you cannot take any Fortune or Fate twice, from whichever source. The paragraph on page 5 in Battlehosts clarifies this, i just pasted the very last sentence.

Makes sense too. The Isengard steel Fate (+1 Defence for 75 points) would be superfluous if you could take the identical Cursed Armour of Udun multiple times. But it does mean that using Isengard Steel and Cursed Armour, The Army of the white hand (and fielding an isengard BH) can have TWO formations with +1 Defence while other evil armies could not.

Anyway bottom line is.. no multiple Counterspell Fortunes can be taken

You'll have to rely on the 50-50 that is Will of iron.

Telchar · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:08 pm

daersalon wrote:

No, you cannot take any Fortune or Fate twice, from whichever source. The paragraph on page 5 in Battlehosts clarifies this, i just pasted the very last sentence.

Makes sense too. The Isengard steel Fate (+1 Defence for 75 points) would be superfluous if you could take the identical Cursed Armour of Udun multiple times. But it does mean that using Isengard Steel and Cursed Armour, The Army of the white hand (and fielding an isengard BH) can have TWO formations with +1 Defence while other evil armies could not.

Anyway bottom line is.. no multiple Counterspell Fortunes can be taken

You'll have to rely on the 50-50 that is Will of iron.

But my point is, does this apply (knowing GW and precise writing, and seeing as nothing of the sort is included in either the FAQ or the main rulebook) to the main rulebook fortunes and fates as well?

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

Simply. yes it applies.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:49 pm

daersalon is completely correct.

HRM · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:26 pm

I don't know why GW can't be explicit with this stuff like Privateer Press is. The average mouthbreather, such as myself, DOES need these things spelled out for us.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:18 pm

Really? I though most people worked these things out easily? Silly me, and silly GW. Though I know some people need a lot of convincing with some rules.

HRM · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:37 pm

Shouldn't be up to the consumer to work things out. It should be unambiguous.

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

Having established that you can't take the same fate or fortune twice which ones would you take. Some of them seem pretty helpful ( Counterspell, desperate heroics or forgotten fortification) but some of them seem completely useless (Seat of Ancient Power, Fate smiles upon you - this one seems particularly pointless change a die up or down once which is basically 1 point of might for 75 points, 50 points more that Curse of Morgoth (the evil equivalent) and 25 more than There will be no Dawn which is so much better)

Telchar · **Posted:** Sat May 12, 2012 6:23 pm

ElfGeneral wrote:

Having established that you can't take the same fate or fortune twice which ones would you take. Some of them seem pretty helpful ( Counterspell, desperate heroics or forgotten fortification) but some of them seem completely useless (Seat of Ancient Power, Fate smiles upon you - this one seems particularly pointless change a die up or down once which is basically 1 point of might for 75 points, 50 points more that Curse of Morgoth (the evil equivalent) and 25 more than There will be no Dawn which is so much better)

The more expensive a fortune, the more useless, generally. You don't want to sacrifice much more then a single company for them, so that leaves the 25 and 50 points ones open. I don't have the book here now, so I can't comment in detail.

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

That was my point that logic is completely wrong (but it shouldn't be)

A couple of examples:

a) Fate Smiles Upon You 75 points for the ability to change a dice roll up or down once compared to Curse of Morgoth same effect third of the price :shock:

b) Athelas revive a hero with no might and once resilience for 150 points, I can think of at least 6 or 7 REALLY good epic heroes that don't cost that much to begin with

c)Seat of Ancient Power +1 fight within 3 inches for 100 points :!:

that awful

d)Forgotten Fortification +2 defence for one building very good with my squishy elves with +3 normal building bonus and then +2 make even wood elves rock hard

e)Blessing of Galadriel D3 might for 50 points good for making a captain into something very special (I have used it with a elf commander who already has fight 7 and 3 might) or making some one like Boromir insane sadly only works out 2/3 of the time (if we follow 1 might = 25 points)

I was also asking which ones you use personally

Telchar · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 9:55 am

ElfGeneral wrote:

That was my point that logic is completely wrong (but it shouldn't be)

A couple of examples:

a) Fate Smiles Upon You 75 points for the ability to change a dice roll up or down once compared to Curse of Morgoth same effect third of the price :shock:

b) Athelas revive a hero with no might and once resilience for 150 points, I can think of at least 6 or 7 REALLY good epic heroes that don't cost that much to begin with

c)Seat of Ancient Power +1 fight within 3 inches for 100 points :!:

that awful

d)Forgotten Fortification +2 defence for one building very good with my squishy elves with +3 normal building bonus and then +2 make even wood elves rock hard

e)Blessing of Galadriel D3 might for 50 points good for making a captain into something very special (I have used it with a elf commander who already has fight 7 and 3 might) or making some one like Boromir insane sadly only works out 2/3 of the time (if we follow 1 might = 25 points)

I was also asking which ones you use personally

Or Galadhrim Bows: 75 points for 2-3 dice extra. Just take another company or two!

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

so which fates and fortunes do people actually use for both good and evil

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

This isnt very helpful in answering your question Elf General, but in 60+ games of WotR against a variety of opponents, I have used Fortunes and fates maybe 5 times and had it used against me only about 5 times.

i.e. in short its seems rare for anyone to think "ooh that seems a good idea" and factor in a Fate or Fortune into their build, on top of which needing a 2000+ point army to take more than one makes stacking them (i.e. usuing two separate Fates or Fortunes in conjunction somehow) usually out of the question. However, IF i do try one out, it's usually a 25 point one. Or one with a decisive impact such as improved chanes of winning priority. (Names to follow when I get my hands on the Rulebook in an hour)

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

I find that anything over 50 points is too expensive and I don't think I've seen them be used before.

I have seen all below that amount used however, I think a few of them e'g extra might, ancient lore and Countespell allow you to 'plug holes' and sure up parts of your army and it's a shame that they are overlooked so often

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Watcher in the Shadows when using Spirits of Angmar. Especially in conjuction with the Tainted, 2 Sunder Spirits & Grima Wormtingue.

Some of the Mordor and Fallen Realms Fates could work too.

Take same Fate or Fortinue twice?

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