Balrog v Magic Dragon

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

I sorta agree with Mordin, about the Darkness spells more, although a Balrog using Wings of Terror.... By the Valar!

Legendary Formation? Yes and No, there were a number of balrogs created by Morgoth, the fall of Gondolin would be a cool battle to see.. Dragons.. balrogs... Vampires*. So it is quite possible more could be awakened, and be in an army of evil. However, if the Balrog was a Legendary, it could actually lead the Misty Armies... which isn't unreasonable.

Hmm I have two balrogs... Just never gotten around to fielding them in tandem yet.. hmmm...

(*Hey why if we have werewolves in the rules, why no Vampires yet? Like werewolves these arent like what we expect from a creature with that name, and bloodsucking pale skinned types with bad eastern european accents, but a shorthand for mysterious bat like entities serving the shadow)

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:50 pm

Is it worth the extra 75 points to upgrade to magic? The Ruin list I find quite boring, just spells to cause hits. Shame it's not the Darkness list

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

A dragon, with Dark Fury? I should say it's worth it... besides flying into the middle of the enemy and then Tremoring them all...

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:14 am

daersalon wrote:

A dragon, with Dark Fury? I should say it's worth it... besides flying into teh middle of the enemy and then Tremoring them all...

Yeah I guess that's a nice idea, but flying into the middle means your gonna possibly take a hammering back at you. I'm not convinced any EHTK model is worth the points

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

I have faced The Dragon and the Stone Giant in a list together, it took a lot to just survive... I have also faced 3 Mumaks in a 1500 point list, they took a lot to contain and bring down... They are worth the points especially if played right. Unlike H2K or VH2K monsters. It takes a lot of hits to bring them down...

Draugluin · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:00 am

mordin34 wrote:

Draugluin wrote:

I was kinda surprised that the Balrog was so expensive without having a throwing weapon or some such thing. If it did, it would be about worth it in my book. Maybe add in 3 resiliance or something.

As much as i would love Balrogs with resilience 3 they would be nearly impossible to kill if it keep the EHTK chart.
One thing I would like is Darkness magic. It is supposed to be wrapped in SHADOW and flame by it's own power.
But it should also be a Legendary formation.

I like that idea, making it better at magic. It makes sense as a rare because there were 7 Balrogs, unless they were to add in a rule letting you take 7 legendary Balrogs, rare makes more sense.

WayUnderTheMountain · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:03 am

Just a quick recollection to make a point. Misty Mountains/Fallen Realms vs Gondor/Dwarves/Rohan in Osgiliath. 4500pt a side. Evil had a Magic Dragon, two Stone Giants, two Mumakil and a whole bunch of other less nasty stuff. Anyways, the two Mumakil alone destroyed the dwarven formations on the bridge, allowing the Khamul-led Black Guard to hold it for a narrow victory. The Dragon swooped across the river in turn 3 and proceeded to decimate the archers and artillery protecting the south-west bridge flank. The stone giants aided in destroying the Rohan defenders at the northern ford which allowed goblins to assault across the river in force. EHTK can take forever to bring down, particularly Balrogs and Dragons which suffer no negative effects on 1-3s, and they typically move between 10 and 24 inches a turn!

Don't underestimate the Spells of Ruin. While they are mostly direct damage spells, they can be quite painful turn after turn after turn. Shatter Shields followed by a monster charge? Ouch. Bolt of Fire makes minor monsters as well as cavalry and artillery go bye-bye. Excissate seems really weak until your opponent starts rolling 9d6 Str 3 hits against your giant formations of goblins. I agree that the Spells of Darkness are quite powerful, but other than Pall of Night they are easily the most short-range spells in the game which means opponents with Ruin just barrage you with spells and then run before you can cast back.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:11 pm

WayUnderTheMountain wrote:

Don't underestimate the Spells of Ruin. While they are mostly direct damage spells, they can be quite painful turn after turn after turn.

I have to second that. In my one game against an opponent with both a Balrog and Druzhag the Ruin list was really painful. This was made even more so since my Wood Elf army has a pretty low defense and my "heavy support" was Treebeard (a couple Ruin spells are extra effective against Ents! :roll:

). Versus the D3 models even a normal cast of Excissate could do some good damage and is such a low Focus that it is not much risk to try it and then follow up with either Bolt of Fire or Tremor...or try both in the case of the Balrog. And as WUTM said, they have some good range. It was a very hard earned victory that game to put it mildly.

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:47 pm

What would be the best utilisation of there 3 Might points?

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

I agree too, my main list relies on 2, sometimes three Ruin Casters working together. The spells of Ruin make the spellcasters mobile artillery units. Exsicate vs large weak hordes, Bolt of Fire against high defence targets, and Tremor used right is devastating. You just keep firing away focussing the effects and taking down formations...

Draugluin · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:46 pm

In the Balrogs case (and most every other case too), Dark Fury is brutal. Except against the odd Vault Wardens and Sauron, he only needs a 3+ to wound. Just think if they had given the Balrog Epic Rampage! Now that would be a broken model!

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:56 pm

NotLegolasJustTipsy wrote:

What would be the best utilisation of there 3 Might points?

I think to call a Duel as appropriate could be very effective. Otherwise I might save the Might either as a protection or if you have a situation where that '6' on the spell effect table could make a major difference (stress on MAJOR...I usually view bumping a die roll as a waste of valuable Might)

General Elessar · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:06 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

I do like the concept of an army with two Balrogs.

How about Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, and his troll guard? :twisted:

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:21 pm

except for the fact that trolls die easy...

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:43 am

Well, Hurin did kill like 70 of them.

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:39 pm

Would it ever be worth taking a dragon without Magic? Or would you say that the magic upgrade is always a must?

Balrog v Magic Dragon

Who is online