Hi guys,

I need a bit of help here. Am looking to play in my first WoTR tournament in 2 weeks and the rules say "No Allies". Apparently last year there was a problem with someone who included Radagast in their army and hence allies were prohibited this year.

Which brings me to my problem - I can't see how to create a competitive Isengard army without using at least one allied Nazgul. (Normally I would include at least one Nazgul as a secondary spellcaster). Today I had a friendly game against an Easterling army which included Amdur, the Betrayer, Khamul and the Shadowlord and my army was taken apart. The key to my opponent's victory was "Pall of Night" which stopped my charges. Even when I could resist the spell or cast a counterspell like "Blinding Light", the next Nazgul could repeat the "Pall of Night" spell and stop me from moving.

I've seen this sort of enemy army before (posted online) but never played against it before. Against such an army which denies mobility, I struggle to compete.

Does anyone have advice or suggestions for how to play Isengard under such restrictions? (no allies).

Thanks,

Bruce

How many points?

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Uh...where was the confusion? If the army's evil, Radagast is illegal. If it's good, he's not. What was the controversy? If he was cheating, his list gets disqualified, he gets docked points or, I dunno, fired out of a cannon into the sun or something. To say 'That's it! A vital and integral element of the game is now banned because of one person who was blatently cheating' seems...well, I don't think I'd wanna be in the tourney.

Just a suggestion, but if mobility is a prob, would ranged weaponry help? The Assault Ballista seems pretty powerful and has a fairly gentle roll table. Also, Crossbows seem to be considered very powerful. Would they help?

well now you see just how blatantly WOTR is broken when it comes to magic and nazgul. Have you talked to the organisers? cause banning allies ruins the game and makes it unbalanced

Hmmm... Regarding Radagast, a player last year took Radagast in an elven army and created the situation where the primary elf formation could not be charged. Inventive players used shooting and magical attacks but the organizers this year decided to ban Allies.

So this is the constraint I'm working under - Isengard, no Allies. Whether I think this restriction is good or bad is irrelevant.

I've received a few ideas so far - use more formations (my opponent can't Pall of Night them all), use crossbows and artillery... Any other ideas?

Much appreciated,

Bruce

1250 points

Hi Mister_Bruce, WOTR would be a sad game indeed if everyone had to take a Nazgul to be competitve. Not least since they are only a legal ally for Evil Still Betrayer + Khamul + added wraith combos are a bit sad, I think I saw a pic about that online...

I think a tournament with no allies makes a lot of sense, to be honest. Though they have it a bit $$$ backwards, since it is pinging the good lists a great deal to not even allow them their allies from the allies only list! It is a bit different when it is just allies from another list and players are cherrypicking the things that are better than their own casters etc. Stopping players from taking silly things like Corsair Arbalesters as allies makes a lot of sense. In this specific case, I would imagine it was player angst about Epic Tranquility (more on this in a second) that was at the root of it all.

But back to your specifc problem - Yes, take a unit or two of xbows, as suggested. Artillery is pretty iffy in this game but xbows are tough, mobile (with heroic shoot, overlorded if neccessary) and very hard hitting. Then take the greatest Evil caster of them all, Saruman. Use his Epic Ruination each round at range. Shatter shields, throw in the Exxiscates and bolts of fire, throw crossbow fire at the shieldless units just use your own melee troops to scree the real hard hitters in your list.

Now back to Epic Tranquility. It riles people, but they need to learn to throw in that heroic charge to beat it. If they do so, it will only work 50% of the time. This is exactly like the ability Saruman posseses, which works 50% of the time but no might is involved. I would go one better and arrange Saruman's unit with shooting LOS forward but a melee unit on either side and less than a base width between them, so it is impossible to charge and duel out Saruman at all with, say, Amdur.

Then take Lurtz and Thrydan, bounce them around your multiple units and hopefully there should be something that can charge and you get to move second to put the dueling hero there. Once you sort Khamul by trying to duel him twice, buring him up with spells will pretty much require him to fight you H2H.

Looks good in theory?

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Thanks Xelee, and I agree with you. It shouldn't be that every evil army needs multiple Nazgul to be competitive. That's also why I'd like to find a way of playing Isengard without 'em.

Cheers,

Bruce

Sappers are one of the best formations to use against that kind of armies. Just use 3 companies with enough space between them. You don't need to charge with them so pall of night has no effect. Cause he has not much troops with multiple nazguls every sappers formation that's explodes cause a great blow to his army.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

Ok folks, thanks for all of the help. Here are the results of my quest to play Isengard at the 1250 point level without Allies on a 4x4 playing board for the Mithril Kingdoms tournament.

My army list was as follows:

- Lurtz (175pts)
- Thrydan (50pts)
- 5 companies of Uruk-Hai Warband (with Captain and Banner Bearer) (260pts)
- 2 companies of Uruk-Hai Phalanx (70pts)
- 2 companies of Uruk-Hai Phalanx (70pts)
- 4 companies of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (with Captain) (190pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 1 company of Uruk-Hai with Crossbows (35pts)
- 2 Assault Ballista (150pts)
- 1 Assault Ballista (75pts)

So this was an Isengard Gunline army - 10 Companies of Crossbows and 3 Assault Ballista designed to outshoot any opponents who came my way. I was under no illusions that opponents using Nazgul and employing Wings of Terror could close that gap very quickly.

My first clash was a victory because my opponent no-showed.

My second clash was against the same Fallen Realms player whom I've been practising against these past few weeks - he plays Easterlings with Khamul, Betrayer, Shadowlord and Amdur. I had my best result so far against Steve but still he chalked up a minor victory against me - two tactics were very effective:
1. Putting the Shadowlord and Betrayer within his Arbalesters - hence by keeping his forces just under 24 inches he could shoot my crossbows but I could not return fire. Then the Betrayer allows rerolls ... etc etc. Because I had lots of small formations he could only target one at a time, but each turn he was whittling me down.
2. Khamul ... nuff said.

My conclusion from playing Steve three times now is that the Nazgul are seriously broken - at the very least there should be a limit on Spell Levels that one can field in a tournament of a certain size.

My third clash was against a Mordor force using the Tainted and the Dark Marshal. This force was nasty - he used 7 formations in 1250 points, including two 9-company orc hordes with two handed weapons, lots of Morannon orcs, two Trolls and no shooting attacks whatever. Sure I could kill loads of them but using Wings of Terror even the orc hordes could reach me and only have to survive 1 turn of crossbow fire before being in base-contact.

The result was surprising. I only had one formation left (my Warband with Lurtz and Thrydan) and was about to be attacked from the front and back when the tournament organiser called 'time'. It was technically a Draw but I think Karl was robbed here - he deserved a significant win as there was virtually nothing left of my army.

The other armies being played were Elves and two Gondor armies. Obviously without Allies the Gondor armies had no magic. I think I could have scored at least a draw against those armies but we'll never know. I had to leave before the tournament concluded.

Thanks again for all of the input.