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 Post subject: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:53 am 
Craftsman
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Hey lads!

it's been a little while since I was last active on the site (a combination of uni, bfbc2, lots of painting, and work :o keeping me at bay!), but I'm planning on entering a tourny over in brisbane (the same one that Shadowswarm is attending - see his army list here). Anyways, the army I play is generally Elves and Rohan, so here's what I've got planned! I've still got about a week till the tourny, so if there are any pressing changes you guys reckon I should make, go ahead and tell me!

Slight OT note: Beat Shadowswarm in a Meeting Engagement with this army - although I was playing a pretty defensive game with a MASSIVE 40" gap between us; on a hill, using Galadriel to shield the squishy parts of my army (read all elves), and immobilising his damn dragon (who stayed alive at the end of the game). I ended up getting a Major Victory though, which is fine and dandy to me!

So heres the list off the top of my head!

Lothlorien:

Galadriel (Magic Caster)
Haldir w. Armour, Elfbow, Elf Cloak

9 Galadhrim w. Elf Blades
9 Galadhrim w. Elf Bows
12 Wood Elf Warriors w. Wood Elf Spears
4 Wood Elf Warriors w. Wood Elf Bows
5 Wood Elf Warriors w. Throwing Daggers

Theoden's Halls

Eomer, Marshall of the Riddermark w. Horse, Shield

5 Riders of Rohan w. Throwing Spears
3 Riders of Rohan w. Throwing Spears and Bows

Anyways let me know what you think :D

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:11 pm 
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I think you definetely need more guys. 43 is much too low for 800 points. I would take off one of the lotlorien heroes and get some more Rohirrim. I would maybe also look for some elites in the list too. Rohan Royal Guard would do the job.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:46 pm 
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i agree, but having more rohirum would make a bigger impact on the battlefield than only 6 or 7

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:53 pm 
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I agree with spuds. I'd also try to get some cavalry at 800pts, especially if you've got Rohan.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:22 am 
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ummm general elessar... he does had cavalry... thats what riders of rohan are... :P

and his bows really did hurt, he just sat on the hill and shot all my goblins.... and the dragon didnt do much, so i think ill be way more aggressive with it in the future, as having D9 and flying means i could fly straight to the flanks and not have to worry much about bows and start causing havoc (and trying not to get him surrounded). having just a 5" move w/ gobs really sucks (and my board is about 7ft long... and i had to run alllllll the way across)

the dragon only got hurt twice out of the whole game (and it was by the same volley!)
galadral was ok, but only imobalised the dragon once, and blinding light didnt help too much as volleying doesnt change and once im in range im also in range of his bows... so i just rushed them to combat, but against armies that rely more on bows it would be really effective

the thing that i think hurt the most was not having any elites in combat APART from the rohirram (these guys got beaten in combat by my archers, but then eomer and the last 2 finished them off....)
the elves low D really hurt them in combat, as once i got stuck in i was able to kill a bunch (and avoid the bows!!)

haldir wasnt that great, i would try and get a combat guy, and rumil is one of the best, as having to reroll a 6 against him really hurts.... thats how you can beat stuff like trolls and the dragon

and i dont think that this army would do too well against morranons, they have high D to help counter ur bows, they r cheap, and str 4, so most of ur elves would get pummeled my these guys...

oh, and u could get galadrials mirror, and i just saw that u have to many bows in the rohan part (8 troops, 3 bows)

so to wrap it up: get more numbers and some elites (but not sure how to pull that off.. u could try allying in some dwarves or something) (what else could u ally in? u have a good variety of guys, so u could use them)

(oh and haldir strikes: we need to send our list before tomorrow afternoon i think, but u still can change ur list after u send it)
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:26 am 
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@spuds4ever: I think you've miscounted there mate, I've got 50 models on the dot - you are right though - 50 models is pretty small for 800 points unfortunately.
@shadowswarm: yep looks like you're right on the bow front - luckily one of those guys never shot at anything the entire game ><

I guess I'm going to have to drop Haldir (even though I reallly don't want to) as he's a bit of a point sink, and I always get caught using him with my bows which makes him stuck at the back of my lines...

Ok here is an improvement list...I hope!

Lothlorien

Galadriel (Magic Caster)

12 Wood Elf Warriors w. Spears
6 Wood Elf Warriors w. Wood Elf Bows
8 Wood Elf Warriors w. throwing daggers
8 Galadhrim w. Elf Blades
8 Galadhrim w. Elf Bows

Theoden's Halls

Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark w. Horse, Shield

4 Riders of Rohan w. Throwing Spears
5 Riders of Rohan w. Bows & throwing Spears
8 Warriors of Rohan w. Throwing Spears

# Models: 61
# Bows: 19
# Might: 6

So lots more troops, Eomer gets the magic D7, and one hero per contingent. Unfortunately, if a nazgul shows up and casts sap will, Galadriel will be a massive point sink, but I need her to nullify any massive threats (like a dragon for instance :P) which can prove dangerous to my line.

Eomer and the cavalry will assume a bit more of a defensive role this time, as losing about half of them every time I run them out (they're great for distractions) really hurts end-game. The throwing spear rohirrim will be used in a skirmish chain in concert with the elves on foot, to bring in the much needed D5 to the army, and harass would be chargers with their throwing weapons.

And yes, bow limit has been maxxed out :-D

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:56 am 
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if your bows are in a good position then you could snipe a nazgul before it get to you (at least kill its mount, as then it cant see over infantry)
and galarial gets a free will pt, so that will still make her useful if they manage to sap will her
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:37 am 
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Looks good. I'd perhaps drop one rider to be able to change the riders with spears to Rohan Royal Guard as you need some hard-hitters IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Shadowswarm wrote:
ummm general elessar... he does had cavalry... thats what riders of rohan are... :P



:oops:

I thought they were Warriors for some reason...

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:14 pm 
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spuds4ever wrote:
Looks good. I'd perhaps drop one rider to be able to change the riders with spears to Rohan Royal Guard as you need some hard-hitters IMO.


Yeah, I'm currently looking for some RRG on horses and foot at the moment as they're way to dear in Australia being 22 a pop :|

Bought myself some Guard of Cadhras Galohan(or however it's spelt) on Maelstrom the other day, so while they won't be used in the current tourny, they will open up some interesting pike options :twisted:

With the archers I'm thinking the best tactic is to keep them bunched for initial volleys, but after that breaking them into skirmish groups who will float around the mid-back line.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:58 am 
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I was about to suggest 6 GoCG instead of 8 WE w/ Throwing weapons, but it looks like you got it covered.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:58 am 
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i took green stuff and put the horse mane thing on some of my riders helmets. painted them a bit differently and they look just like rohan royal guard. just an idea. i needed 18 for wotr and no way was i paying that much.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:45 am 
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ummm, not sure what that last post is about, it seems out of place... but anyway, we did the tourny today and it was a ton of fun (i even vs Haldir strikes in my second game!) you can see my list and how i did in my 800pts tourny moria forum, and i wont reveal anything about how he did as he had some really interesting games, i hope he has time to share them :)
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:09 am 
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Gah well It doesnt seem like hes going to, so ill spill the beans
He won the tourny!!!!
his first match was against an army of the dead with a few dunidain, it was ill met by moonlight and they only had the 4 dunidan archers (but we used for spears). not sure how it played out, but he won a major victory

2nd game was against me (you can see this in my forum/book :P )

3rd was against the Khand player. he had the golden king, akaban guard, a chariot king, cavalry, and the shadowlord on horse. his force was in 2 pieces, infantry and cavalry(shadowlord protected these). this game im dying to know how it played out as haldir strikes wiped him out really quickly(in the khand players last game he wiped out his opponent really fast). so he got a major victory there

he got good sportsmanship, painting, and army compostion, and with his 2 major victories and a draw, he won the tourny

if you guys want to know how he got his major victories then i can contact him and ask if he'll post it
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:08 am 
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Battle reports would be cool :)
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:08 am 
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@Shadowswarm: Patience mate! I've been writing out a report, its just taking me a while! I'll split it up into 3 parts, for each of the 3 games, and the last part will have afterthoughts and the result of the tourny (which Cal couldn't keep to himself :P)

westfold wrote:
i took green stuff and put the horse mane thing on some of my riders helmets. painted them a bit differently and they look just like rohan royal guard. just an idea. i needed 18 for wotr and no way was i paying that much.


Yeah I'm actually leaning towards doing that as well... Ebob did some fantastic conversions with plastic RoR ages ago...I'll have to see if he can try make some for me... :P

Anyhow, as Shadowswarm has said, yesterday we both went to an 800p LOTR:SBG tourny. 3 Missions: Ill Met By Moonlight, Storm the Camp, and Meeting Engagement. I used the second list which I made in this thread, which mainly focussed around a mainly defensive list, with lots of Elven infantry with throwing weapons and Galadriel as my defensive buff against any nasties. I also had a cohort of Rohirric allies, made up of (lots) of spear throwers and Cavalry, which I intended to use as a rapid redeployer - essential in most of these scenarios, as most of them split the force up from each other - plus I've used them at the past 2 tournaments I've been too, so I was slowly learning how to optimally use them over the course of year.

Game 1: Elves-Rohan vs. Army of the Dead-Grey Company

The first game I played was against Tassos (freaking awesome name), who was a previous veteran of the tournament scene. His army was composed of 4 Dunedain, The King of the Dead, and about 40 WoTD. Tassos ended up finishing in 3rd place, even after the drubbing I gave him, so he must of really gotten his act together in the next few rounds. After seeing his army, I'll admit I was slightly uneasy as to how I would go, as my elves would have a tough time wounding all those warriors! On the bright side, he had no spear support in the army, so I had an easy number advantage as I could bring twice the numbers of models to bear than he could - that being said, I made sure my heroes would stay away from his king unless well supported, or if I could bring in Galadriel to immobilise him.

Here's a post-tournament draft of what the field looked like:
Image

Tassos won the roll-off for deployment and chose to deploy on the northen(upper) edge of the board - choosing the area holding one choke point next to the "hill" in the center (read: GW Temple of Skulls). he deployed the majority of his WoTD, and KoTD - I guess assuming that I would try and tread carefully. I immediately popped all my elven archers and Galadriel on top of the hill - if I pulled off a quick blinding light, I would cover a 12" area of my elves - with those dunedain lurking, I wanted to make sure I wouldn't give away any easy bow kills. In addition to the archers (I had only deployed about 16 models at that point - another 14 to go!), I deployed the rest of my wood elf warriors with throwing daggers and spears on the left side of the hill, as I didn't have to worry about my defence as much anymore, it had been boosted from D3 to D5! Tassos deployed the rest of his army at the same point as his previous group, although this time from the board edge. I decided to deploy my Rohirrim on the edge, for redeplyment if need be, and my Galadhrim with swords just behind the wood on the southern edge, as I could ignore cover and essentially encircle his force if the opportunity arose.

From deployment on I think it was a bit of a losing battle for tassos, as even though he was protected from my elves on the hill, he couldn't ignore the massive block of elf warriors on the left. As he didn't have any range attacks to speak of (until he got into 12" range), it meant that my elves and rohirrim could move into decent blocking positions until he got to my lines. This was impounded by the fact that I was now also wounding everything on a 5+ with all my shooting attacks, so I would rake up about 3-5 kills/turn with elves alone, and then my rohirrim would send volleys of throwing spears and bows at the WoTD as well. As soon as our lines finally clashed, I was totally outnumbering his warriors, which started dropping like flies. The archers continued to rain death from above, shooting countless warriors who could do nothing but mill around at the back of his meat-grinder.

On the right side, Eomer the Rohirrim and Galadhrim crash into the lines of WoTD. Tassos desperately attempts to bring the warriors from his rear ranks to try and bring his numbers to bear, but a combination of WoR and Galadhrim cut them off from penetrating the center of the group. By this time, Tassos has hit his break limit, but since his army has such a high courage, they just don't fail their damn tests. On the other hand, my warriors are (more often than not) able to pluck up the courage to continue charging into the WoTD. I manage to sneak a small skirmish group of 5 WoR through the back of his army, who manage to down a few more WoTD, but not before they get charged, or freeze due to terror. Damn.

Galadriel evens up the odds of the king eating 2 models per turn by either spamming immobilise on his ranger support, or on the king himself. Even with the constant barrage of spells, I can never get enough numbers to bear on him. I miraculously lodge a spear in his face and cause a wound - but he saves it easily with fate.

As his left starts to slowly crumble due to my numbers, his right suddenly starts going on a killing spree - downing a few elves and rohirrim - ok, time to make those archers useful! I finally move them off the hill and use them to form a double pincer on both flanks - cutting off his supply and destroying all the models on the field - save one - that damn king! about there, we get the notice that we have 20mins left. Alright - time to knuckle down and take this guy down! So in goes Eomer and about 5 other warriors, intent on encircling the king and hacking him down. To his credit, the king manages to last another 2 turns before Eomer himself finally dispatches him. As Tassos has no models left on the field, I'm awarded a Major Victory!

End Result: Major Victory, +1 bonus point as I killed his leader.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:11 am 
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Game 2: Elves-Rohan vs. Moria

As said in Shadowswarms thread, I had to face him in Storm the Camp. Whilst the board was terrain rich, and blocked HEAPS of sight due to the buildings in the center I knew I was going to struggle. My army was in no way an aggressive army, and I was already aware of how lethal the dragon could be in this game as it could quickly deploy anywhere, and there was going to be a very small chance of me being able to stop it if it manage to get into my lines. The goblins I could handle, but if he turtled I would be screwed.

Layout of the second game:
Image

Cal got the right corner - his side of the board was empty of cover, whereas I had a wood elf treasure trove of cover on the right. If he wanted to get to my corner, he could come - but I would easily be able to hold plenty of choke points in which to defend against him.

I can only give a really brief summary about this game, because, as mentioned, our armies ended up canceling each other out - his goblin archers were also taking down a lot more of my guys at range then I could return back which was hugely frustrating. Whilst he made an initial venture on his right flank (north), as soon as my archers got a hit on his shaman he turtled out of range (the dog! :P ) leaving my archers and foot warriors at the mercy of his volleys. As predicted his dragon flew into my base, and in a close call, engaged galadriel and a couple of the people I thought were blocking her until they died in a volley ><. On the plus side, I managed to set all my elves on him, and trapped him for a few turns, desperately using a combination of immobilise and heroic moves to ensure that the dragon wouldn't charge her again.

Turns moved slowly, and I critically made my decision to make the rohirrim move out about 2 turns too late, allowing Cal's turtled goblins to sit and make a wall. Damn - there's no way I'm penetrating that line. In the end, I got a disappointing draw as there was no way I could feasibly penetrate his line. In addition, both of us had only killed about a handful of models apiece, so we were truely at a stalemate. We called the game.

End Result: Draw, 0 bonus points as both our leaders were alive at the end of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:17 am 
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Game 3: Elves-Rohan vs. Khand

So after the first 2 games I was now on the top table against a Khand army. I've never seen a real khand army, let alone know what the rules for the troops were like - so I was entering this on a blank slate. In addition Matt had literally disemboweled the isengard army (his opponent looked miserable during the entire game) in the previous round incredibly quickly so things weren't looking good for me, even with my high number of elite troops.

Matt won the roll off and slowly deployed his all-metal army. He had masses of Abrakhan guard and Khandish Mercenaries. In addition, he had a block of khandish archers and a block of axeman. Followed up with both the Shadow Lord (there goes my high shoot value), and the Golden King. I asked for his rules. He told me them. Oh damn. I hope that I don't break, or bye-bye heroes. To top that off, he had a khandish king on chariot. The cav advantage is looking bad here.

Layout of the final game:
Image

He deployed on the northen side again, moving his archers onto the stepped hill. His mercenaries deployed on the left flank with the Shadow Lord, whilst the rest of his foot troops and the Golden King deployed on the right side of the hill. Lastly, he had a block of warriors deployed on the far right. I'm not really sure what he was planning to do with these - I assume they were used as either a distraction force, or to try and draw my line away from the main fight, but I ended up setting up in a refused flank formation, pretty much taking them out of the game.

For the first few turns, we had the general volley fire battle, Galadriel once again cast Blinding light to ward off arrows, just to even the Shadow Lord's playing field! My Cav were deployed opposite his, with my Galadhrim forming a battle-line in front of the hill - curved in such a way that I could collapse part of my own line if need be to intercept any of those stray Khand axemen. Matt's abrakhan guard deployed in a massive block, shielding the GK, and also using a screen of axemen to protect them from potential elf arrows.

Matt continued to come towards me...chariot and shadow lord in tow. All I could do was to use the choke points near the stone henge to potentially block fights off - so I had most of my throwing weapon warriors deploy on that side, to lengthen the line if they could - or if worst came to worst, hold the flank if Eomer and his riders were beaten.

Soon enough our cavalry lines clashed - I managed to pick off one or two of his own mercernary cav, but not enough to make a difference. The Chieften in the chariot burst into the fray, charging on of my cav. then the shadow lord tried to transfix eomer. Uh-oh. I counter this by spending all of Eomer's will-points as I can't chance Eomer being easy meat for the chariot riding king. Combat is mixed, with a few rohirrim getting creamed, with the multitude of heroes which are running around in the center now. Combat moves into the ruins, where Matt’s Khandish Captain calls a heroic combat, cutting down a rohirrim and poses a threat to the edges of my lines. I move my infantry against him, and in the following turns, use my numbers to wipe his forces and control the Stonehenge.

In the center melee, Eomer is still standing off against the chariot and his cav cronies while my line begins to try waits for his abrakhan guard block to hit. The shadow lord casts transfix against eomer again, who can’t resist as he drained his will defending the last attempt. As Eomer and the remaining mix of rohirrim on the left are the only thing standing in the way of his chariot breaking through my lines, I counter this by making Galadriel burn another 3 will and transfix the king in the chariot – robbing his chance to smear eomer into the ground. In the turn after, I burn another 2 will transfixing the king again – this time Eomer and his support have no problem dispatching him and robbing Matt’s flank of the banner bonus that the king conferred.
Image

His army soon begins to crumble after this – Matt just can’t bring his numbers to bear as his force doesn’t have any spear support, and begins to pay for this as my elves slowly drag them down due to my greater numbers. My archers are still going strong, easily dealing with his distractor detachment, and helping me bag some easy kills as they are out of range of the shadow lords pall of darkness. His shadow lord does manage to sap the will of Galadriel, but by this time its too little too late. Matt does manage to take Eomers head though, as he manages to cast transfix eomer for a third time, using 2 abrakhan guard to easily take him down while he’s defenceless. I roll for fate, but botch the roll miserably – thats the first time someones managed to kill either of my heroes during the tournament.
In the end I manage to reduce him to 25% - where he calls the game.

End Result: Major Victory, +1 bonus point as I killed his leader.

Overview
In terms of my overall performance, I think I did pretty well with the army I had - the elf/rohan combination was incredibly good as it let me max out the numbers of thrown weapons and bows. I don't think I would change my hero selection for that army either, as magic is dreadfully important for that points tier - if I didn't have galadriel in the second and third game I would've kissed my chances of holding on goodbye, as Eomer would've gotten flattened by the khandish chariot in game 3, allowing Matt to run rampant through my lightly defended supporting line. In the same way, not having Galadriel there to sit and go toe-to-toe with Cal's dragon would've resulted in my army quickly crumbling without much resistance.

I think the tournament scenario list was highly advantageous for my army as well, as a maxed out elf bow army crushed the high defence warriors of the dead, who I would normally barely scratch. In addition, I was able to play a very reactive game as I was generally outnumbering my opponent and could sit and absorb massive amount of damage, but still have plenty of bodies to throw into the meat grinder. In some games I would have 5 or 6 extra troops waiting an inch or two behind my main lines, ready to fill any gaps made in the lines - this was especially helpful against both khand and the army of the dead who would generally be facing double the attacks that they were throwing at me.

So all in all, it was quite an interesting tournament - lots of good armies this time, which I hadn't seen the previous times I had attended. In addition, I had done better than I had ever dreamed of bagging those 2 major victories and ending up as the overall tournament champion :D I also ended up getting a plastic Mordor Troll as a prize, which is giving me the itch to get an evil army finished, just so I can use him and the troll chieftain I have together! :twisted:

Anyways I hope you enjoy the report I've written up, and I'll be heading to the next tournament in January to defend my title ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:05 am 
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well sorry for spoiling it, i didnt think you would post one as you not the most active memeber, anyway, since you did a really good job with your battle report, why not just copy and paste it into the battle report forum?
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 Post subject: Re: [800p] SBG Tourny Elves and Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:39 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:03 pm
Posts: 1984
Location: Manitoba, Canada
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:yay: Way to go for getting the win. Sounds like you had a lot of fun. Thanks for posting the report, I love those things! :D
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