I have suggestions for some house rules, so let me know what you think and you can add to it if you like:

1) The spotter:
Q: The volley fire rulles require a friend to see the target, but no rule says where this friend should be. So, what if he sees the target but the shooters can't see him, how will he give them the signal then???
A: My suggestion is that at least one of the shooters must be able to see the spotter within 42cm at least obscured, or within 42-56cm but must be clear (not obscured).

2) Throwing stones: anyone can throw stones (logic ) with the same rules as Hobbits but he hits on 5+. [edited]

3) Throwing hand weapons: anyone can throw his hand weapon with same rules as throwing spears, but with his shooting stat +1 to hit (so if he shoots on 4+ he'll get 5+) and he forfeits all his remaining movement even if he slays his opponent. If he has no shooting stat then he hits on 6.
More to that he suffers the following penalties:
- If he has a shield he can use shielding, if not he fights as unarmed.
- He wounds only with S2.

If target is wounded he can't move this turn, as in immobilised.

4) Sam: He has "His gardner" special rule:
- Only one of them must pass his courage test for both of them to pass.
- If Frodo dies he becomes the ring bearer.
- Frodo can use "With Me!" on Sam without using any Might points.

This rule suggests that you add both Heros togehter to your army, which is close to the story line as they aid each others.

For rule #2, how about only if they're standing on stones (on the board I mean)?

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"Mustard the Rohirrim! We've got to ketchup with those Uruk-fries before they capture the Hornburger!"

I think there is no place in Middle Earth that you wouldn't find a stone in, but may be as an advanced rule you can limit this to hard terrains.

2) I'd say shoot on 5 or 6 (because Hobbits are weak enough, no point taking away one of their benefits), with strength -1 the normal strength score (ie: mostly 2).

3) I don't get the movement and immobilize rules. What is the purpose of them? How do they relate to reality? Also, if you throw your hand weapon you'd be unarmed, but you haven't mentioned that. The reality is, if you throw your sword at the Uruk-Hai, you better hope you kill because otherwise you're doomed.

2) good point, I'll edit the main post to be 5+

3) Fighting as unarmed is on of the penalties above, only if has shield he can use shielding.

Movement for the shooter: He has to forfeit his whole movement to be able to throw his weapon.

Movement for the target: if he got wounded by the weapon he don't move this turn. Not really immobilising but I just mentioned it is like being immobilised.

Note on 3: Usually for a normal warrior if he gets wounded he'd be killed, so this is more for the heroes who may be wounded but not killed. With the scene of Lurtz throwing shield at Aragorn from the movies in mind, I think it can happen. On second thought I think in such case it would be better if target rolls 4+ (50/50 roll) to be able to move this turn. So there is a chance if wounded that he's stunned or immobilised even if he used fate.

let me know what everybody thinks.

I understand what you're saying, just not the rationale. Why is throwing a hand weapon different from throwing a "throwing weapon"? Throwing a stone requires no movement, but that's because you have to find one to throw.

Why is being hit by a hand-weapon different from being hit by an arrow, throwing weapon or stone?

These rules seem very arbitrary.

Do I take it that you like the other rules then..that would be good!!

ok here are my thoughts:

A hand weapon shooter faces 2 main difficulties:

- Aiming: (so the higher roll)
Mainly the warrior is not a shooter in the first place, so even a good stone shooter would take a better aim, still with the strength differnce.

- Weapon Design: (so the movement loss)
Add to this, that hand weapon is not especially balanced as a Throwing weapon so requires more balance and strength to guide it to its target. Even a good shooter may fail to score with such heavier and unbalanced weapon.

I may agree with you that forfeiting all movement is bit harsh, so do you think half movement would be fair?

I don't think there is much point to this rule...but if you insist (because you have a weapon, it's in your hand, so why can't you throw it), I'd say:

1) +1 to your normal shoot scores and -1 to S, range 10cm, because the weapon is not balanced or designed for flight. All other throwing weapon rules apply as normal, except you only have one shot, not unlimited supplies.
2) now you have no weapon and are unarmed. Good luck!

It occurs to me you might have missed that part of the normal rules: if you take throwing weapons you are assumed to have enough for unlimited shots. Hence the point costs. If you take throwing spears, it means you're carrying a bundle of them. If you take throwing daggers you're wearing a bandolier or something. You don't get them back.
So if you throw your hand weapon, you won't get it back.

ok sounds good with the following comments:

- Just adding that if he has no shooting stat he must roll a 6.

- As with the limited weapons, how many Throwing spears a warrior could carry? Not enough for a whole battle I'd say. The rule assumes that he can pick up some from the field too (his own or others). And same with hand weapons, that's why the penalty that he'll be unarmed for only the turn he threw his weapon in.

Let me know what you think.

More house rules:

5) Alternative Hitting, Wounding system

Hitting:
=====

Criteria: Who rolls higher wins.
Number of dice: equal to "Fight" value
Modifiers:
- Wounds taken: Subtract 2 dice for each wound taken (to a min of 1 die)
- Model on the ground: Only half of the fight value (rounded down to a min of 1). Instead of doubling his opponent's attacks.
- Charged by a Cavalry: Only half of the fight value (rounded down to a min of 1). Instead of doubling the Cavalry's dice.
- Shielding: Opponenet rolls only half of his fight value (rounded down to a min of 1). Instead of doubling the shielding model's dice.
- Fighting Monstrous creature: Only half of the fight value nomatter who is charging (rounded down to a min of 1).

Example:
F6 Aragorn suffered 1 wound before, so he'll roll 4 hitting dice on his next fight.
While,
If he's also fighting a Monstrous Creature, he'll roll olny 2 dice.

Wounding:
=======

Criteria: Normally crossing the "Strength" and "Defence" on the "Wounding Chart"
Number of dice: 1 basic attack for all models
Modifier: 1 extra attack for each 2 points difference in Fight values. (to the max of his "Attack" profile)

Example:
Aragorn F6 hit a Moria goblin F2.
Fight difference is 6-2=4, so he gets +2 attacks, 1+2=3attacks
While,
If Aragorn F6 hit Lurtz F5.
Fight value difference is 6-5=1, so he gets no extra attacks and he sticks with his basic 1 attack.

Justification:
========
Lurtz is a better fighter, in both skill and strength, than a Moria Goblin. He probably will give Aragorn limited choices than the later in fight. To better illustrate my point, do you think Boromir would give Lurtz much of a fight with all his wounds if Aragorn wasn't there?
Current hitting/Wounding system reflects only strength, while skill could go a long way in determining the winner. only fight (skill) is used in the case of a tie which is small percentage.

And if you're wondering "can a Moria Goblin still win against Aragorn?"
The answer is yes, definitly he still can. The system here gives some advantage to the hero, but It'll even give the goblin a better chance to nail a wounded hero especially in swarming, which IMHO is what would happen in reality.

So as usual, let me know what you think.

6) Elevated position:

Advantages of higher position:
====================

Movement:
=======
- The slope any hill/mountain is considered to be hard terrain with the following rules:
...........a- Both going up or down the hill loses half of movement there as usual, but the descender gets +1 inch movement bonus over that half.
...........b- the players may agree that some hills are even more difficult to move up/down, so 1 extra inch is deducted from the half movement.


Shooting:
======
- Criteria: Archers are at least 4" up the hill and at least 2" away from target, measured down the hill.
- Modifier:
............* Up hill: range-1" measured down the hill not straight out, strength+1
............* Down hill: range-2" measured up the hill not straight out, strength-1

*question: I think range is always measures up and down hills if it requires climbing, right?

Fighting:
=====
- Criteria: Charger starts his movement at least 2" up the hill and at least 3" away from target, measured down the hill.
- Modifier:
............* All charging models get a knock down bonus as in Cavalry.

Exceptions:
=======
- Monstrous Creatures: A hill is an elevated ground that needs climbing, so what is considered a hill to normal figure may be not for Monstrous Creatures. In such case 2 things should be done:
............* Monstrous creature follows their normal rules without a penalty.
............* All ranges are measured straight to Monstrous creature's head.
- Volley fire always stays the same except that the range is affected as above and before doubling.

Justification:
========
Imagine a force walking into a valley with high hills on both sides, I don't think they'll have a fair fight if they are ambushed from up hills. That will be a nasty trap and usually any force would avoid that unless they are forced, or they send small scouting forces to mount the hills and warn them of any trap.
Higher position should give superiority and a great advantage for any force that reflects in:
- Better shelter and strength for archers (not better hitting!)
- Better charge for warriors, especially that surprise factor could be on their side too.

There are already rules for high ground or bad slopes - just look up difficult terrain, defending elevated positions, climb & jump rules.

The size of your average wargameing hill would not confer any advantages to shooting, shooting is firing at effective range, not maximum and so height would not effect the games effective ranges. It is also harder to judge distances when shooting down a hill.

Running down hill is difficult and you would be liable to trip and fall, it would also be impossible to keep any sort of formation.

No, you always measure base-base.

Thanks for the criticism, last rule didn't even get one.



ok, this one I agree to.



of course some slopes is difficult, but remember the wargs going down the distant hill in TTT, they were fast and powerful. And the one came down on Hama..that was powerful enough to knock down a cavalry.

Shooting:



right, effictive range.
so how do you think firing against/with gravity should be?



Fighting:

Still agree to those rules as long as models can get in base contact.The point here is that they are not in base contact yet.

I am mainly aiming to slopes and distance. Hills, mountains in particular. Note that if both are on the same slope there is no defending barrier here even if they're in base contact. That's why the min distance condition!

Movement:

No problem with the hard terrain rules. The only addition is that the descender gets +1".
That's what house rules are for, adding some reasonable modifications...

I don't reckon the descender (descendant ) should get any extra move, but I think that once a model reaches the crest of a hill, the should move normally.



I thought movement was counted as walking/jogging, rather then running? Which is true?

Rock on

doopy

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Kill WOTR, yeah?

You are right. There is no extra move in the original rule for moving down the hill; it's just part of the house rule.

I think these rules are over complicating the game. House rules (in my opinion) should be made when you disagree over somthing, one such rule we use is:

'of the table'

If when rolling for a fight your die roll is over zealous and the dice falls of the table that model takes a wound. It keeps the game moving fast and stops any younger children flinging dice all over the place.

Your rules do not solve any exisiting problems, on the contrary they may even create new ones. just my opinion

I find multiple opinions is a healthy thing, so thanks a lot for sharing.

For me, I think of house rules to be like those advanced rules, or the common scenario-specific rules as swimming, loose mounts, limited visibility, picking up weapons, sentries ...etc.

The kind of rules to add when you play with your friends in a good mood to spice up your game and give it a different taste...and may be some complications too

7) Nimble (special rule): (Legolas/Merry/Pippin:)

It allows climbing and Jumping off on top of big Creatures:

Climb up Large Creature (40mm base or bigger - except normal mounts which you can normally jump on): It takes 2 turns to climb such Large Creature.

= First turn: (Climbing)
-------------------------
1) Declare the attempt in movement phase, in such case you ignore the control zone of the creature. (Can't climb up a flying creature)
2) You need to get in base contact with the creature, with none less than half of your movement remaining.
3) For the sake of fixing, the model is immidiately put on top of the creature but you're actually still climbing. (you may still need to use a small bit of putty to fix it in place)
4) Check your balance: take a normal climbing test with a small difference, on a roll of 2~5 you can use half your movement instead of no movement in normal test (in such case you can use it to only shoot). 5) From now on, at the beginning of every move phase the model on top must check you balance as the you are riding a moveing creature that you don't control. Hobbits always get a -1 to the roll on the climbing chart. If the climber falls he takes a fall off from the creature's height and lies down touching the creature's base (and trampled in case of Mumak) and if survives he continue fighting in the fight phase.

Notes:
- Climbing Model can be shot at but with the creature is in the way.
- From now on if the mount is killed/knocked down or the climber decided to get off, the climber takes a balance check (modified by -1 for hobbits) and if failed he gets suffers the same as the Howdah crew whatever was the creature he's on.



= Second turn: (Reaching the top)
-------------------------------------
1) The model is now considered to be on top of the creature with only half of his movement remaining. Note that if he wants to shoot this turn he shouldn't move at all. The climber is considered to be little bit away from Howdah so no immediate fight is on unless climber declares a charge.
2) Starting this turn the climbed creature (not the Mumak) can forfeit half of his movement trying to shake the climber off. That must be declared before the climber takes his balancing check. If so, then the climber gets a -1 to his roll on the climbing chart (besides the normal -1 for the hobbits).

Notes:
- The normal "can see" rules are applied now.
- Climber can jump into the Howdah with a normal jump test. And Howdah Crew can defend it as in defending barrier rules.


Jumping off on top of big Creature:
It takes only 1 turn same as the second turn of climbing up large creature, but a jump test must be taken first. If jumper falls, he suffers the same penalty as in climbing up the creature. Platform to jump off from must be at least about same height or more than the creature's height, and no more than 2 jumper's height away in the air from the creature.

Why take the risk?
============

- Autohit the mount (Only after the Howdah is down in case of Mumak)
- +1 on the hit roll against the Howdah Crew.
- +1 on the wound roll against the Mount (Only after the Howdah is down in case of Mumak)
- Cutting the Howdah's ropes:
1) Rope swing: An extra balance check (-1 to the roll of Hobbits)
2) If successful, from now on all the climber can do is attacking the Howdah's straps: D (4), W (2)
3) Howdah is Down: Mumak Stampedes next Move Turn. At the end of Stampede, climber rolls a die and on a roll of 1 he falls same as if he's Howdah crew. (That's still besides the usual balancing test)

If it's on a 40cm base I'd guess it would take a lot longer than two turns to climb up it...

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Studio gaarew; Gaming armies, by gamers, for gamers.

oops, you're right...
I corrected it.