in a isengard force wouldnt you
send your uruk hai into the fray along with a hero
and then sneakaly run round the enemy with a handful of wargs and sharku

Dude... totally off topic! LoL. In discussions, you have to stick to the topic being hosted at the present!

Heyall, I'm back. Sorry I haven't been around, but, yeah, again, M&B is so addicting! Anyway, shouldn't Harad have come and gone, I mean come on, Mordor is upon us! We need Curunir back! Ah well, we'll wait for him a bit more...

Rock on

doopy

_________________
Kill WOTR, yeah?

Yeah, so, we've been waiting for Harad for quite some time now!

Anyone have enough time on their hands to "host" Harad for us?

By the power vested in me. (which it isn't but oh well) On to the next topic


THE NEW MORDOR

I think that black neumenorians are a little broken do to fear at 9 points each (the same as a gondorian with shield and one more fight value

_________________
From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Sorry but the next topic was meant to be harad

_________________
You enter a dark none descripent room. You fail to notice the large dragon in the corner. You are eaten by a large wheelbarrow.

whoops sorry didn't see that.

HARAD


As for harad i think that the new grappling lines feature rather dulls some of the risk you have to take when considering taking a mumuk. however in my personal experience mumuks are unwieldy and though they can cause nasty devastation on occasion they also tend to go nuts often. also a well versed good player will know that all you need to counter a silly mumuk is a well placed charge with a hero. with borimir of the white tower or Aragorn king (for those who prefer gondor like myself) mounted on a horse can out distance the mumuk and then charge and wound it several times to cause panic. for the evil player to counter this he has to shoot the horses out from under them first which means that even if they have to foot it they still drew fire power for a couple of turns. another strategy is to have a strong hero like dain ironfoot take a mumuks charge right in the face and hope he can hold it while you pile on with lovely kazad guard goodness (demonstrated in a white dwarf to be effective and tested by me in spare time) to avoid this cunning ploy the evil player must simply avoid the hero in question but that can be hard if they position him correctly.

_________________
From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Harad are an awesome force now that they have more units and allies. I'll let the experts go through the tactics, but my only niggle is the Fight value of the Mumak. Why 4? It should be at least 5 and preferably 6, so no foot soldiers can draw with it in the Fight Phase.

Tactically, I'd have a block of Mahud warriors and a small mounted contingent made up of Raiders and Serpent Guards. To add numbers I'd pile in 6 point Haradrim warriors and have a Mahud King and Harad Captain lead them, with the option of a banner. UNSTOPPABLE!

_________________
The Southern Fiefdoms: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21928

Personally, I feel Harad is far better than Tolkien or Jackson intended them to be- great choice for Evil.
Pros:
1. Extremely cheap warriors equally suited for infantry, archery and/or cavalry. Poisoned arrows and War spears mean the desert peoples of Harad have access to some of the best wargear in Middle Earth. (So much for the Citadel of Minas Tirith and the Caverns of Isengard!)
2. Some belittle the Mumak, but these beasts can carve up an opposing army like no other unit in the game if they find the right situation.
3. Hasharii, Mahud Kings, Half Trolls and other Harad regular heroes are usually as good or better than their counterparts in other armies (Beregond/Damrod, Captains of Rohan/Gondor)

Cons:
1. Suladan is their only major hero. Thats about all I can come up with.

Con: low defense. A 5 point moria goblin may be harder to kill at a distance than any haradrim warrior.

Necromancy though this is, I'm glad to see this thread resurrected, as it's possibly the most viewed thread ever on the forum.

It has about 10000 more views than the next biggest, Natarn's "Smaug the Magnificent" thread.

_________________
"Mustard the Rohirrim! We've got to ketchup with those Uruk-fries before they capture the Hornburger!"

Don't forget the poison arrows rule, that does count for something.

Can we keep this revived!? Its a great thread if we have someone in charge of setting topics.

On Topic: Harad are my favourite army and I have a wide range of troops. Their greatest strengths are the fact that most of the models have F4 and there is huge versitility with the units; Corsairs have arguably the best fire-power in the game and can be allied with most evil armies. Mahud are super-effective close combat killing machines and your standard Haradrim Warrior is cheap as chips and great value for their points.

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

They have crossbows, like the uruks.
But with their pavise shields, do have an advantage in ranged combat.
Also, every corsair has throwing weapons, which is really good in close combat.

But they are to squishy for me, low defence.
And they don't have any cavalry.

So anymore advantages/disadvantages?

I don't really see corsairs as an army by themselves. I would only use them as allies for a harad army, who have numerous cavalry options.

hell are you right about the low defence though. they get eaten by elf bows and i think that they are 8 points each, (which is hardly cheap) so can't sustain casualties before combat.

btw, do bucklers give extra defence? it would make more sense for them to just give shielding or something, but im not sure.

_________________
Hello.

bucklers? you mean the shield option right? exactly same rules, +1 defence and shielding rule, i know its wierd because they look about the same size as something you would eat your dinner off, not exactly a piece of wargear Lol

I really love the whole harad sourcebook, huge troop diversity, but like you guys have said the low defence is a pain, which is why i allways max out on troop numbers, dangerous spending too much on heroes. For 700 points i have something like Suladan, a chief, around 12 cavalry, half of which are serpents, then rest of the points split 1:1:1 between harad spears, bows, and shield armed corsairs. With that many bows i often outshoot elven armies.

As for the corsair list, again the low defence requires you to take lots of warriors, dalamyr is great though but i would supplement him with a captain to boost the might. MUST give everyone a shield, D3 is abysmal, i like to make little balsa wood ones for my pikes

Those really hurt but they have their limitations. A friend of mine no longer bothers to include archers in his haradrim force when playing against my dwarves. It does make them more deadly and has a great psychological value but it doesn't make them that deadly. As others have mentioned there are a great variety of haradrim but once you know your opponent a specialized army is far more effective than a balanced one.
The best solution I've seen for their lack of defence is to ally them with a large contingent of moranons which provides heavy troops to take on the opponent head on and then use the cheaper haradrim to surround him.

_________________
“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” -Romans 5:8

This is a great post and deserves being continued. Shame no one took up the mantle to Host. And the official "Request to Host" thread doesn't exist. Therefore I'll take over, even though I'm mainly a hobbyist rather than a gamer. I'll do my best to update weekly as the OP before.

So if ANY of YOU know anything on the subjects presented, please put in your two cents along with supporting your arguments. I'll just throw subjects out there. And if need be, even recycle old ones that weren't fleshed out enough.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject of the Week
BLACK NUMENORIANS
Thoughts? Commence.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous Subjects Table of Contents(in progress of being edited)
Complete discussion/ Little Discussion/ Moderate Discussion

(Thanks to Dagorlad for the list)
Aragorn the King Pg10 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=180
Archers Pg2 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=20
Area of Denial (Tactical/Strategic maneuver) Pg9 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=160
Army of the Dead Pg22 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=420
Castellans of Dol Guldur Pg16 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=300
Cornered (Scenario tactics) Pg8 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=140
Elves Pg6 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=100
Feral Uruk-hai Pg19 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=360
Gûlavhar, the Terror of Arnor Pg22 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=420
Goblins Pg6 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=100
Harad (Faction)
Hobbits Pg10 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=180
Isengard (Faction)
Isengard Trolls Pg18 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=340
Khamul the Easterling Pg16 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=300
Khandish Mercenaries Pg13 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=240
Morannon Orcs Pg7 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=120
Mûmakil Pg3 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=40
Rangers of the North Pg11 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=200
Riders of Rohan Pg4 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=60
Ringwraiths Pg4 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=60
Ruin of Arnor (Sourcebook) Pg23 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=440
Saruman Pg6 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=100
Shamans Pg5 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=80
Spearmen Pg7 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=120
Special Characters (e.g. Wormtongue, Denethor, etc.) Pg2 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=20
Standard Bearers Pg12 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=220
Swan Knights of Dol Amroth Pg2 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=20
Take and Hold (Scenario tactics) Pg8 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=140
Uruk-hai Pg3 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=40
Uruk-hai Demolition Team Pg9 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=160
Uruk-hai Scouts Pg20 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=380
Volley Fire Pg11 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=200
Wargs Pg1 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... 52&start=0
Pg6 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=100
Warriors of Minas Tirith Pg4 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=60
Wizards/Spellcasters Pg25 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=480
Wood Elf Sentinels Pg14 http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... &start=260

Black Numenorians huh?

Morgul Knights are the most expensive and strongest cavalry units in the game. They are really great on account of terror, as they are signifiantly harder to charge and counter charge. This negates somewhat two of the main weaknesses of cavalry-your opponent charging before you can and preventing you from getting charge bonuses, and after you have charged, the opponent moving tons of infantry around your significantly larger base. Combined with a lance and heavy armour, they will do a lot of damage provided they're three weaknesses are not overly exploited:
1. Spears/pikes The bane of all mounted units, the opponent will not have to charge you to bring more attacks aganst you.
2. Expense Too many of these guys will break the bank easily, forcing you to bring less of them. You should try to support these guys with lots of nice orcs.
3. High Courage enemies Elves, Dwarfs and guys with Bodyguard will almost certainly overwhelm your knights easily.

I will post my thoughts on these guy's foot counterparts later.

_________________
"Woe to the Vanquished!"
-Brennus-

Black numenorian warriors are really one of the best thing mordor can offer. And Shadowmaster morgul knights are different too morgul knights.

Black numenorian have no real weakness the only thing is that they are a little bit more expensive then morannon orcs. Black numenorian are very good first rank units, support them with orcs and they are unstoppable.

The best army I had with black numenorian was a pike block with easterlings with pikes orcs with spear and black numenorian. This pikeblock was supported by wargs and the dark marshal.

Black Numenorians are good shock troops, and for defensive manoevres where they can defend an objective with terror. They (as hero of gondor mentioned) are devastating when spear supported, but can also work very well on their own, especially when the enemy has priority, as not all of their guys will be able to charge you in a single turn, allowing the dread warriors to take them apart piecemeal by ganging up on the ones that do pass their courage checks. However, as with Morgul Knights, high courage foes and Bodyguards will wreak havok, so having a bunch of orcs with spears to support or a hero to chop some foes up is a good idea. Beware of elves, as they combine high courage with a fight value that is higher then your's.

_________________
"Woe to the Vanquished!"
-Brennus-