Well, there hasn't been any posts in any other "Gaming Tactics Forum" thread, so I'm going to try not to take this personally. I'd hate to have to change my name to Beowulf Thread-Killer. Anway, here are some thoughts from me for the above.

First, I usually try to get my main Hero out onto the board right away. I have been treated poorly by dice enough in the past than to take the chance on three or four turns going by with my primary leader sitting on the sidelines. This is especially useful if your hero has any special abilities that could aid you. For example, my main Good army is usually Woodland Realms of some mix so this would be either Legolas (who may be able to rush to a position of shooting early) or Galadriel who could then use Blinding Light to help shield her own forces as they come on.

I almost always bring all my Elites on the table right away as well. These usually fill a specific role in your army and do you no good if they come on so late that they cannot be where you need them. The only exception to this would be if playing an army that has enough archers for Volley Fire and adding all the Elites would prevent me getting enough bows on the table right away.

If you have only a few archers then you probably want to leave them behind initially. This allows you to get your main army (obviously melee troops) on and formed up as you want them. The ranged fire of the archers helps make up for the delayed deployment and if you only have a small number (under 6 perhaps) they may not help much initially anyway.

Personally I usually max out my 33% rule and often arm my Heroes with bows as well, so for me this is different. I believe that archers (in number) are good to bring onto the board early for two reasons. First, while there are few enemy troops yet on the board your archers may have a turn or two "free" to run at full speed to an optimal shooting position. Second, the initial deployment of the first half of your army is often at a distance away from your starting edge which means you can start your archers even closer to their targets. Any models brought on in later turns via dice rolls start at the outer edge of the board. This is all even more important if you have enough archers to Volley fire. Bringing 10+ archers onto the board right away and within Volley range could give you a very significant advantage.

Not only could you cause some damage early on to your enemies initial deployment, but the presence of the archers could have a significant impact on the decision of where your enemy brings their new models on. If you are able to set up a strong kill zone on one corner of the board then your enemy will elect (when possible) to deploy new units far from that. Likewise, if the dice allow you to place the units you have a great position already set up.

For the above reason, careful selection of terrain for your initial deployment is important. If your opponent may have ranged fire (especially Volley Fire) early, be sure to limit his available targets. Either pay close attention to range or line of sight options. Just because you can start at 18" from the board's edge, you may not want to if that puts you in range too soon and you can't defend well against the ranged fire. If you can place units behind cover to eliminate Volley sighting (with perhaps a few loss-leaders positioned to draw the fire away from your main team) that may be more important than getting every extra inch out of the initial deployment option.

Another consideration on placement is that the ability to start in from the edge could give you a very good chance of getting some quick troops into the enemy lines early. The chance to rush Wargs, Riders or even just foot troops quickly at enemy archers while their total numbers are relatively low is not something to miss. That initial deployment "jump start" could allow you to get some (possibly sacrificial) troops disrupting his bow fire 1 - 3 turns early.

I usually do not play Calvary-heavy armies but I do sometimes use mounted troops to supplement my foot soldiers and assist against enemy riders. Other than the chance to jump start my Wargs, I usually elect to leave any calvary off the table in the first deployment and take advantage of their greater speed to rush where needed as they do come on.

As for bringing on the remaining troops, there is not as much tactic as chance in this. 2/3 of the rolls put the choice out of your hands (either leaving the model off the table or allowing your enemy to place it). When it is my choice, I try first to see if there are any weak points in my current deployment that needs reinforcement either defensively or offensively. Next I look for any weak points in my enemy's line that I may be able to take advantage of. You must keep in mind that these new arrivals may be 3-4 turns away from the action and things could change dramatically. But our games rarely see all combat taking place in the center of the board but rather in 2-3 large melees spread out based on terrain and goals. In those cases starting at the right place could still mean a difference of a couple turns getting to where you need to be. This is a main reason I elect to leave mounted models off the board initially since they are quicker to reinforce.

If you have any archers coming on late, remember that you may want to place them very differently. The goal here is to get them shooting at the enemy as soon as possible. If you bring them on directly behind your lines you could have limited options due to the risk of hitting a friendly model. They may be better brought on from a far edge, even if that's more risky to thier survival.

That's some of my initial thoughts on managing the initial deployment and early moves for scenarios using this Reinforcements rule.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I think this is a really good topic, Beowulf. I admit that I haven't given it a lot of thought before, so I didn't jump into the discussion. But I think the subject is all the more useful since I don't think I've ever seen it discussed before.

A lot of the things you've mentioned make a lot of sense. I also like to get my main Hero on the board early. I don't like taking the risk that they will be delayed or forced to enter the board in a bad location. I also like to get my elite infantry on first. Usually they have good durability to stay on the board while your reinforcements arrive.

I often have a small to medium cavalry force to support my infantry, so I would hold those as reinforcements. Once they are on the board they can use their fast movement to help support the elite infantry that's supposed to be holding up the enemy.

If I used a predominantly mounted force, I think I would try to get my heavier cavalry out first followed by any lighter cavalry. In this case I think it would be best to use the heavier cavalry to charge into combat as fast as possible rather than moving slower and shooting with mounted archers.

Sorry for the suprise. It seems to have caught many by suprise (not much participation), either that or we are suffering from the summer doldrums. I suspect that many members are on holiday. So far you've done a great job with your comments and in fact they leave very little unexplored.

I believe that the main challenge to using reinforcements is in trying to anticipate your opponent. Since both sides are (commonly) subject to the same reinforcements rule in these kinds of scenarios, there is a need for "gut feeling" in how best to anticipate your opponents deployment and a small part of pure bravado!

I've always tried to bring on my main hero, having him on the board from the start where I want him placed seems important to acheiving any kind of early stratigic goals.

This question (along with #3. "Archers for Volley Fire" and #4 "Cavalry") underline my comments about anticipation. Is my opponent using a primarily defensive force (slow moving, high defense)? I'd probably consider bringing on enough Archers to do Volley Fire to help break down his forces during the initial turns. Is the opposing force offensive (light moving, less defense)? Then I would try to anticipate and counter with heavier troops which would allow me to hold a tactical spot better until my reinforcements arrive.

I think you've really nailed the main points. Maybe we can expand the discussion with some practical examples?

I also think that one should consider your opponent. Some play very defensively others aggresively, and this tends to show in the type of Armies used.

Ditto. Let's hope that we can get a little more input, but overall I think that we could easily explore this and other similar topics right here in the CTD.

Cheers

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

In answer to question 1: It wouldn't really matter, because in a 500-750 point game more then one model would have to come on in one turn (unless you had REALLY bad luck!

In answer to question 2: definitely bring the elites on first... or second anyway. most of your standard troops will be on at the start. The reason i say bring them on second is because if you have cavalry, it would be a good idea to bring them on next.

EDIT: Ahhhhh! Curinir didnt write back to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Kill WOTR, yeah?

first off, sorry for not being active the last month. ive been busy with such matters as killing gandalf (man he is stuburn) and need to get in the habit of staying on.

as for the actuall disscusion

Reninforcements is a tricky thing seeing as i dont have the legions of middle earth suppliment book but do know the general concept.

if you are the person getting the reinforcements you need to have a defendible position as soon as posible. if you are to survive long enough to get them. this means you should have archers and spears in the defence and calvory in the .... well calvory

if you are the attacker you need to surond your opponet with what you have quikly to prevent the forces reaching them

as for what you need first and were to apear well i dont think bows would influince were they would come unless it was to come from behind them to flank the firing line, the only things that would influince it would be incredibly powerful heros , as to what comes in first. your most powerful units lead by a hero, second a releif force lead by another hero

as for right now i need to go so back to...... killing gandalf

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

first off, sorry for not being active the last month. ive been busy with such matters as killing gandalf (man he is stuburn) and need to get in the habit of staying on.

as for the actuall disscusion

Reninforcements is a tricky thing seeing as i dont have the legions of middle earth suppliment book but do know the general concept.

if you are the person getting the reinforcements you need to have a defendible position as soon as posible. if you are to survive long enough to get them. this means you should have archers and spears in the defence and calvory in the .... well calvory

if you are the attacker you need to surond your opponet with what you have quikly to prevent the forces reaching them

as for what you need first and were to apear well i dont think bows would influince were they would come unless it was to come from behind them to flank the firing line, the only things that would influince it would be incredibly powerful heros , as to what comes in first. your most powerful units lead by a hero, second a releif force lead by another hero

as for right now i need to go so back to...... killing gandalf

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Hello everyone,

I think this topic has run it's course, I'm just waiting to see if the next host is ready and then we'll be off with a new topic. In the meantime, allow me to remind everyone that if you have an idea for a topic and/or would like to host a topic, please visit the HOST/TOPIC LIST thread and sign up!

Cheers



Sometimes I'm not working so I should probably write something like... back to sleep!

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

I always took it to mean you were tell ME to get back to work and wondered how you knew what I was supposed to be doing while on OR. I thought the aluminum foil hat cut off enough brain scans....must get more foil.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Hmmm, good thing I just bought all that foil stock!

OK, [me] back to work...

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

Curunir, where have you gone! The CTD has been lost without you.
I hope that we haven't lost you to work! Say it isn't so!

If he doesn't respond/update soon, we might need to take matters into our own hands... keep going where he left off.

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OR's secret stealth poster since 9/09.

well i sent him a PM on the 12th, he hasn't answered it yet....

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Kill WOTR, yeah?

Alright because curunir is not here ill take over for.... well intill he gets back. then if he isnt back in a week someone else can take a turn.

the new topic is...... FEIFDOM TROOPS (i hope thats how you spell it)

With all that new gondor stuff out theres tons of new stradagies expecialy with the new pikes and two handed swords from Dol Amroth and lamedon respectivly

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

ok everybody, you heard the balrog.... lets get back to curinir's work!

fiefdom troops.... easy!

= Knights of Dol Amroth
= Axemen of Lossarnoch
= Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth

(as much as you want...)



then, just advance up the middle of the field, bring your cavalry from behind, and KA-POW, you have a major!

Example Lists:

500pts:

Leader: Forlong the Fat
9 Axemen of Lossarnach
9 Knights of Dol Amroth
Knight of Dol Amroth with Banner
9 Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth with Pikes
12 Rangers of the Fiefdoms
2 Rangers of the Fiefdoms with Spears
8 Clansmen of Lamedon

1000pts:

Leader: Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth with Lance and Armoured Horse
Forlong the Fat
Angbor the Fearless
Captain of Dol Amroth
Captain of Dol Amroth with Lance and Armoured Horse
9 Axemen of Lossarnach
9 Knights of Dol Amroth
Knight of Dol Amroth with Banner
9 Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth with Pikes
12 Rangers of the Fiefdoms
3 Rangers of the Fiefdoms with Spears
9 Clansmen of Lamedon
5 Knights of Dol Amroth with Lances and Armoured Horses
Knight of Dol Amroth with Armoured Horse and Banner

yeah, so....

hope that helped

doopy

P.S: Listen to the Balrog

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Kill WOTR, yeah?

Personally, I would include 2 rows of men at arms (with the KODA in the frontline), as opposed to the axemen being in the centre. This would mean you are taking full advantage of the phalanx. The axemen would make great flank protection, and cavalry + archers are great at forcing your opponent into your wall of pikes. Like this:

A A K-K-K-K-K-K-K A A
A A M M M M M M M A A
A A M M M M M M M A A

Archers and cavalry would be deployed as the terrain suits them.
Good army list though!

*I think this thread needs a serious shake up by someone who is regulary on the site such as a mod or one of the admin (time permitting) because the thread in itself is an asset to the site and should not be lost or forgotten.

In any case thanks for trying to kickstart the thread again...

Joe

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Brush licking is for better painters.

Personally, I think the thread is far too large and confusing to be useful. Perhaps separate threads could be created for each discussion. This would make navigating all of the tactical advice much easier by calling upon the powers of "Search-fu"

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Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

Erunion, there is an Index thread dedicated to this thread. The index just has the topics and a link to the page in this thread where they start. Keeping this "Continuous".

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I suppose that will work

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Respectfully,
Jonathan

Do what is right, love mercy, and walk humbly

Battle Companies

If there was a separate 'Tactical discussion' forum alongside the 'gaming tactics and house rules' section, which contained smaller threads dedicated to each discussion subject, I would very much support the idea (especially if it were ordered alphabetically for easy searching but with the current discussion as a sticky). I do agree that the overall thread is slightly cluttered and jumbled but the index is always there. Of course without Curunir there is nobody to update the index so sooner or later the index will be outdated.

For 'Continous Tactical Discussions' to progress, I think the intervention of a mod or admin is needed desperately because the current format is falling apart and without the backbone of someone constantly overseeing it, this thread will no longer be able to progress, which will be a real shame.

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Brush licking is for better painters.

The 'Continous Tactical Discussions' has always been one of my favorite threads. It is a shame that it hasn't been active. Thanks, mathusala0, for trying to get it started again. I'm actually worried about Curunir. He's normally very prompt about answering his regular email even when he can't check his OR messages. However, he hasn't responded to an email I sent to him a couple of weeks ago. I hope he's okay.