Great job, CaptainOfTheWolfRiders! The summary is also a great idea!

Thanks CaptainOfTheWolfRiders, very nice summary.

Thank you everyone for participating and the input. Still a few kinks to work out, but overall lots of good discussion and plenty of good ideas to think about and I think this new and improved CTD has worked out well.

I'll be posting the next topic sometime today (before midnight GMT) so get ready!

Cheers everyone and let's give our first host a big round applause.

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Curunír
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yea Im next

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

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The Continuous Tactical Discussion Thread (CTD) has changed to a rotating host/subject format. New Topics will now be suggested by active members, and the role of Host will be the responsibility of the person in charge of the New Topic. If you are interested in hosting a subject, please sign up by replying in the HOST/TOPIC LIST thread.

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The current host is mathusala0 and the current topic is...
Topics related to Spellcasters, Wizards and Magic-Users
Topic Description: An open discussion about the various kinds of magic-users found in LOTR SBG.
For example:

• What are their pros and cons
• How do you use them to gain a tactical advantage
• How would you use them to augment your LoMe Army?

Please Note: Because of the large variety of characters available, please try to limit your post to one specific model or group at a time, i.e. Gandalf, The Istari, Shamans, etc. Also, please use some kind of emphasised subject header (emphasize with bold or CAPS or BOTH) to make it easier to follow the various paths that this topic will take. For more posting tips, please see the introduction in the HOST/TOPIC LIST thread.

you're happy now, but just wait...

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Cheers and Have Fun!

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Curunír
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right on into it then

shamens

shamens are very powerful spellcasters able to send there comrades into a blood frenzy with a single word, as well as sending enemys into a trance allowing them to be cut to peaces

depending on what race you play shamens can be a point waster or a miricle in cheep

Uruk shamens are not realy needed for an already expencive and formidable army, they should only take them if the army comprises of scouts to allow the less defencive warriors to live even longer

goblin shamens are a must for these minons of evil. there low defence and low points cost will make you want to field at least one shamen or more and because of there points you will be able to quite easily, combine them with a goblin drum and the enemy will be stunned at the ever comming swarms the get back up even as they've been killed

orc shamens are the inbetween of the first two, the orcs have a better chance of staying alive than the goblins but a lesser chance than the uruks. this gives you consentive to take one mabey and keep it well protected by a mob of orcs

all shamens have the pricless fury spell which nearing the end of games will have a greater effect than it did when the enemy could counter it

transfix is a great spell but requires a high roll and a low willed enemy to cast it on :cry:

The fighting skills of shamens are not powerful enough to best even weak warriors so do not send them into combat

thats all for now

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

mathusala0 said:


I'm not sure, but don't they have spears? You can still use them to support a friend if the enemy gets too close.

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"You tit! I soiled my armor, I was that scared!" - Sir Robin the Brave, Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail"

yes this is true but if you loss the fight you loose the effects of furry

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

I think shamans for orcs and goblins are a must! One out of every six warriors that is "killed" will keep fighting, in a late game when your force is broken it has the potential to keep the majority of your army fighting when they would all normally run away. I have never tried using transfix with a shaman because it is prety pointless. Also when dealing with heros like Boromir their horn is usless and they will be overwelmed when then normaly would be hacking down waves of your troops.

nope you don't as spears don't count as being in combat if supporting

i'm a big fan of orc and goblin shamans as they have saved my ass a few times in games especially with fury making the goblins pass half strength is invaluable

transfix is a bit of a waste of time though too high a roll required from to pass with so little will

The uruk hai ones i've had reccommended to me by GW staff many times but i have yet to have these really work and i think a captain is much better for the points

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

hey four will is better than 1

Nazgul

The Nazgul are fersome spellcasters that have quite a large selection to fire from

dart, I have never yoused this spell often do to the fact that it wastes the very valuable will of the nazgul but when I do it has some devestating efects

Transfix/compel, the nazgul are the best at this as they have a huge amount of will and easy cast rolls. use this in combanation with a fell beast to take out a troublesome hero

Drain courage, this is a spell thats is very effective aginst enemy heros or troublesome units of great strenth, (knights of dol Amroth for instance)
this is extreamly effective with the combo that they have dread visage, and at the end of the game even the good heros will flee

Drian will, this is increadably powerful spell aginst wizzards basicly making them usless, combine this with the witch kings staff break, makes them compleatly usless

always keep a nazgul for the end so they can keep the good courage down

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Nazgul are excellent spellcasters, although it isn't economical to take more than 3 in one battle. Generally I would use the Witch King and one other Nazgul to support him. For me, black dart is an absolutely devastating spell. It can take out heroes with ease even at the expense of a lot of will I will still try and take out a hero costing more points than the nazgul. The nazgul have a nice array of all the usual type of spells too (compel etc.)

One good tactic to use, is that if the nazgul only has one will remailning, then keep him hanging around so that harbingers of evil can take effect when your opponent needs courage tests.

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I don't find black dart particulary usfull because it will complety drain your nazgul of its casting abilities. With a simple compell the hero will be brought down if you can manage to swarm him. I use black dart when the hero has maybe a wound left and is not in a position to get swarmed. I use black dart from time to time to take out siege crew, they are unable to resist and are quickly slaughtered. But on a roll of a 5+ you are often wasting lots of will to do a simple task.

I'll vouch for the Nazgul. I have had them used against me with success a few times.

The only thing I would note is that using Sap Will against a Magid User, while effecitve, is only one possible use. Another is to Sap Will from a major Hero in order to have an easier time with Transfix / Compel. My opponent cast Sap Will on my Eomer as an example, then the next turn Compelled him right to his doom. And with no Will left I could do nothing once the Evil player passed his Compel roll.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Arn't you able to resist sap will? if so then why wouldnt a hero use all of their will to resist the sap? If not then i have wasted lots of will with my nazgul.

You can resist Sap Will as you do most spells...spend Will. The issue is that many non-magic or non-major heroes only have one Will. To spend it on resisting is really self-defeating. Either way, you're out of will. So in those cases the Nazgul could skip this step and go straight for something useful like Compell, Drain Courage or Transfix. If you pass and your target tries to resist he uses his only Will anyway, so Sap Will against a 1-Will target is just a waste of teh Nazgul's own Will.

But for a greater named Hero with 2 or 3 Will it's a diferent story. Often casting Transfix or Compel at the right time will mean the death of the target since you are likely to overpower them dramatically (if you are timing things right), so your oppent will probably try to resist entirely. If they succeed then you lost your timing and need to wait for another setup to try again. But if you cast Sap Will earlier (while closing or maneuvering) then there are only two possible outcomes. (1) You succeed and your oponent fails to resist with thier Will, meaning he now has no Will to resist your Compel or Transfix, or (2) he resists Sap Will but is now down at least one point of Will when it comes time to trying to resist your more important spell.

Some of these options are the main reason Kamul is my favorite Nazgul. Because he can regain Will by wounding other models you are able to "recharge" as the game goes on. You can cast heavy on the spells, burning up some of his Will faster than you might other Nazgul, in order to take out major opponents and then slip him into combat against basic enemies to recover some of those points.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Khamul's regeneration of will makes him an excellent choice - a shame that he only hits black dart on a 6 though

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Brush licking is for better painters.

Something annoying Ive always thought about Khamul- ringwraiths lose 1 will when fighting anyway, so he doesnt actually regain will, he just keeps his own. The fact that his ineffectiveness means it is harder for him to cast spells means that he isn't as good, in my opinion.

Although Khamul can use up will, to gain extra attacks, even if he kills both enemies he still can't regain will- something which frustrates me due to his points and spellcasting ability.

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thats why you put him on a fell beast

ringwraiths are great anti hero units for the evil side but also can be a risky option due to the points and combat ineffectiveness. keeping them behind your lines is always your best bet
good for maybe one or two but i think at the end of the day they have a limited effectiveness

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

This is all right for some, fell beasts are expensive (both in money and points)

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Lots of good tips and comments being discussed. I'm going to stay out of the frey for a while...
1. Because I'm on the road and don't have my rulebooks with me.
2. I am obviously biased when it comes to Wizards.

I would like to see more "tactical" discussions however. I see a lot of comments about abilities of individual minis but not much on how you would use them in conjuction with other troops, where you would deploy, in what combination you would deploy them with, etc.

NOTE: The Khazad-Dûm Sourcebook is scheduled for release on May 5th, so this topic will self destruct a few days after May 5th to make way for the next topic.

Cheers

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Curunír
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