should we do a new topic since it seems its dying down

if we do can we do magic users (wizzards, shamens, ect.)

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

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The Continuous Tactical Discussion Thread (CTD) has changed to a rotating host/subject format. New Topics will now be suggested by active members, and the role of Host will be the responsibility of the person in charge of the New Topic. If you are interested in hosting a subject, please sign up by replying in the HOST/TOPIC LIST thread.

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The current host is CaptainOfTheWolfRiders and the current topic is... Topics related to the Ruin of Arnor

Topic Description: A thorough discussion of the material included in the Ruin of Arnor sourcebook, including (but not limited to)...

HEROES:
Ruin of Armor includes several new Good and Evil Heroes. We'll look at their skills and stats and discuss their tactical pros and cons.

WARRIORS:
Warriors of Arnor (WoA) and Rangers of Arnor (RoA), two new troops for the forces of Good. How will they contribute to game play?

BUILDING AND USING A LoME LEGITAMATE FORCE:
What things to consider when building your Arnor, Grey Company, Shire and Angmar forces and ideas on how best to use them on the field of battle.



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Curunír
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I haven't actually used the Warriors of Arnor or seen them used by anybody, but here are some general impressions from reading ROA.

Strengths: higher than average FV, good armor and spear support.
Weaknesses: Low courage, limited heroes and limited troop selection--at the present they don't have any cavalry or elites with heavy armor like Gondor. Tactically, an Arnor army is pretty much limited to a shield wall with archery support from Rangers or Hobbits.

So their strengths aren't bad, but not great enough compared to their limits to tempt me to build an Arnor army.

I don't care for Arvedui, but I would expect his Stand Fast would be pretty essential for an Arnor army. On the other hand, I do like Malbeth the Seer.

Thanks Curunir! I must say I was a little jarred when this was thrust upon me, but hey, it'll be fun!

And just for a bit of clarification...the "Ruin of Arnor" topic will range from the actual Arnor army to the Grey Company and Angmar as well, so that a bit of everyone can be represented. So...

The Grey Company:

Rangers of Arnor:

Pros: Well, the pros about the Rangers of Arnor is that they all have bows and they all hit on a 3+. While it is a pro, their best quality is their increased Fight Value. Unfortunately, I've only played games with them against my girlfriend, and...well, let's just say I think girls are better at these games than guys are... . Anyways, the bow stuff, while it is a good thing, it only works for a little bit of the game. As soon as the enemy gets within your bow's range, they will be able to charge you very soon. And as most orcish armies use Warg Riders, then it will be about two turns or less before they reach you. The enhanced Fight Value of the rangers will better their likelyhood to win once they are hit by the cavalry charge of the warg riders.

Cons: The only con I every found was actually more of a pro...the inclusion of 1 Dunedain for every 4 Rangers of Arnor. This brings your potential model count down, but it helps when you have small hit squads of rangers (four to be exact) teamed up with a Dunedain (I always used Rangers of the North). The Dunedain's Courage of 5 will help out with the Stand fast! rolls and keep your Rangers on the field once they are Broken.

Tactical Note: In our independant retailer, we have come to the conclusion that Aragorn, Arathorn, and Halbarad are technically Dunedain, and as such can be given up to four Rangers of Arnor for their inclusion in the force. Some people say against this, but if your gaming store or club agrees to it, then by all means, do it!

Angmar:

Shades:

Pros: Chill Aura. Shades make every Good model within 6"/14 cm suffer a -1 penalty to their dice rolls when fighting. Very good near the front lines.

Cons: Stat Line...need I say more? F 1, S 1, C1...etc etc etc...

Tactics: Keep the Shade well protected at ALL times with many many many orcs! Possibly a Hill Troll in there too!

That's all I can really say for now, except to thank Curunir once again for letting me host this time around. Keep posting!

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Tale of 9 Gamers 2010: The Misty Mountains/Angmar:

April: 0/3 choices complete

Yearly total: 50/74 models done O.o

yep thanks curunir . Seeing that quite a few of the models have been commented on, and i agree with what has been said i thought id concentrate on 2 heroes that have yet to be mentioned.

Gulavahar is in my opinion better than any other in this arnor supplement, and for 200 points he has to be. Now everyone says that his poor defence 5 is his major downfall but actually it doesnt matter. With 3 might and the rules allowing him to regenerate rules he is all but invinsible. His resistant to magic also helps though i have seen him successfully transfixed and/or compelled.

Most people seem to believe that he is easy to kill but in fact be able to hide behind scenery or your orc hordes is a major bonus. And with 12" movement, he can quickly turn the tide battle on the other side of the battlefield.

Unforunately many people forget that his magic rule does not offer him permanent protection, but only a re-roll of the die (as hobbits get). Still this is but one disadvantage and the wizard casting the spells can be quickly disposed of seeing that he has 4 strenght 8 attacks!

My tactics having used him more than a dozen times would be to hide him behind orcs. Once within 10-12" fly him over the top and neutralise the backline, or cavalry or most importantly a spell caster or captain.

In the many games i have used him he has only dies twice - one because of aragorn....grrr and the other because of gandalf the white. Once he is gone there is basically nothing the rest of your force can do - so keep him alive at all costs

Buhrdur

i dont tend to use this hunk of troll flesh because in my opinion he just aint good enough - the only way in which i see burhdur deciding a battle is to have troll support. By himself he is very vulnerable and tends to die quick as he has 1 fate (i think) but for 110 points he can prove useful against mounted armies such as rohan or even minas tirith. it is against rangers that i believe he can be easily brought down.

my tactics for him are to send orc rabble in first and when a hole in the line appears send in a troll or burhdur himself to sort it out. They will almost certainly brake through the opponents line. Having wargs at the flanks but behind the orc lines enable you to quickly support any overwhelmed wariors and having a spectre or two could help quickly brake your opponents formation.

ps. i tend to keep all orc archers back to act as bait which could turn against the opponents plans or so as to keep numbers high and prevent them from dropping below the crucial 50%.

i have not the book to give me gidence however i have seen some state so here



Warrior or arnor are actually cheaper than they should be
they should be 9 points a modle when they are actually 8
for there higher fv 4 but lower courage but come with spear and shield free

compared to a man of gondor with almost same stats (ie sheild spear higher courage lower fight) are 9 points a modle

so arnor will have a bigger army of the same class of troops as gondor
the hero sage dude can give people the fury spell basicly and therefor is a good option , however you will have the same chance of them getting back up as your enemy had to kill them

the king of arnor is a must have unless you have support from other peoples of the north (rangers)
captions and banners come like normal

Rangers of the north basicly are like rangers of gondor and make a NESISARY allied force for you to have archers, also its selection of heros are good for getting needed might and attacks on the field

Gulviner (or the gargoyal) is secend to toughest of all evil heros (sauron is first) and can regenerate wounds, just keep him in combat along with a couple of might happy characters and he will be slautering his way across the field

Shades are effective aginst arnor and if you youse a team other than angmar than if you dont want a ; balrog, nazgul, or sauron, than they make the perfect choice

other than that, the troll dude makes the first named character and therefor allows trolls as there own army (think mordor troll chiels with him) and can reck devistation unless shot to death
a default with troll armys is that calvory can nock them down if they win combat and therefor do lots of damage to trolls, thankfully however, arnor has no calvory.

arnor needs to side with an amry of at least archers and if it can get them calvory

also no seige

must keep talking

also No magic whatsoever

Ally with elves then

also no cheap units.....

im spent on this topic

ps



you would have let her win anyway if you think about it

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Didn't mean to be jarring, just a little push to get us going in a brave new direction (how's that for being tactical!)

See, you're off to a great start. Thank you for clarifying this.

I (at the moment of writing this) do not have the RoA book, and so I have nothing to add constructively to the converstaion. That said, I would like to see more suggested tactical uses for the models in question, especially if you have them and are using them in battles (i.e. practical examples).

Yes, keep posting, and let the others know that we're taking this thread in a new and bold direction. Cheers CaptainOfTheWolfRiders and keep up the good work!

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

you would have let her win anyway if you think about it[/quote]

.........She saw that and this is what she said...

"I am deathly offended! I have hurt his ego many times and have enjoyed it thoroughly!" :evil:



...so...um, yeah...girls are better than guys are in playing mini games...or maybe they are better at sportswomanship...

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Tale of 9 Gamers 2010: The Misty Mountains/Angmar:

April: 0/3 choices complete

Yearly total: 50/74 models done O.o

I'm really glad to see this thread revitalized! It's always been one of my favorite threads. Great job, Curunir! You've really breathed new life into it!

Excellent observation, mathusala, on the point cost of the Warriors of Arnor. That got me to thinking some more about them.
I do think the lower point cost is essential to make them competitive. WOA do not have a sword and shield option like WOMT to save a few points for the soldiers standing at the front of a shield wall. I also think that the lower courage affects Good troops more than Evil troops. Considering how many Evil models have the Terror ability, this can be significant.

So I got to thinking about strategies against a WOA army. An Evil army
can really capitalize on the low courage by having an Evil hero that
reduces the courage of Good models within a radius (eg. Nazgul, Sauron,
Necromancer, and I think the Goblin drums). With a courage reduced to 1, the WOA will have a hard time charging any Terrifying creatures and will potentially spend a lot to time quaking in their boots. Also, Spectres will have an easy time using their special ability against them.

If the WOA are reduced to less than 50%, then it would be crucial to
neutralize any Good Hero's Stand Fast (especially Arvedui) by engaging them if possible. A heroic move would probably be worth it to prevent a Stand Fast.

Regarding girlfriends and I'll include wives...if they don't win enough (whether you let them or not), they'll just stop playing any games with you

ok to end the wives girlfriends thing i guess that if they dont win much than let them but if they beat you often than try, and sorry if your girlfriend read this i was unbeknowinxed (if thats how you spell it) to here abillitys

Anyway yes your right arnor is the courage least army in the game,
the warriors of arnor are more expencive all togeather, but will even out with men of gondor due to the fack that getting a spear for free is a good thing if your lines rear crumbles due to magic or flanking, so free spears dosent mean you have to get 1pt more per modle,

yes i made these calculations from momt

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

From what I know, cavalry knockdown only works on models with smaller bases. Thus, any model without a 75mm base is not affected by "knockdown". BUT... Models armed with lances still get the bonus.

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OR's secret stealth poster since 9/09.

the rules clearly state that any non calvory/monstorus creature or mount
is nocked down

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

@BrightLance: It took me a bit of hunting to figure out whom you were quoting [hint]

I think you are right about the smaller bases, but here is a case where it would be good to have a quote from the rule book (or at least a page number to refer to) to help the discussion along.

Same goes for you; a quote from the rule book or at least the rule book and page number (so the rest of us know what you're looking at) would be a big help.

OK, back into your corners and at the bell, come out swinging (page numbers, that it!)

[DING]

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

you can only knock down models with below strength 6 if you are cavalry there is no distiction for base size so wild wargs for instance still can be knocked down as they are not strength 6 or above even though they have a large base.

on the actual topic i can't really add anything as i haven't got RoA atm, though i have played against gulhavar and is is pretty awesome for the point is you don't let him get exposed to bow fire easily.

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

wargs count as calvory though

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

no they don't, warg riders do, wargs don't

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generalship is easy just point your troops to the war

page 38 of The Return of The King rulbook:



and also p 38 of The Return of The King rulbook:

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"You tit! I soiled my armor, I was that scared!" - Sir Robin the Brave, Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail"

but thats the retearn of the king rule book and kind of outdated
i did not know the wild wargs didnt count as calvory sorry for my rudeness (darn twice on this subject) but i belive i remember somthing about it being strenth 6 or more because people were complianing about there balrog getting trampled

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From The Lowest Dungen To The Highist Peak I Fought Him The Fell Balrog Of Morgoth

Gandalf,The Two Towers

Ditto for me, I haven't seen them in action yet, and I just picked up the book today So I have some thoughts as well

I'd agree with that. The example Army given (The Garrison of Fornost) sounds pretty much like that. So how would you supplement this with Allies. Arnor does have a fairly wide range of Allies available, including good old Minas Tirith (for Cavalry and War Engines), Rivendale, Khazad Dum (ouch put them Dwarves in the front line) and the Gray Havens.

Any ideas?

One thing I would like to comment on is the new(?) format of the supplements. I do miss the terrain features, and it seems to me that everything is tied in nicely with LoMe. I've just noticed the "Gaming with..." sections providing "tactical advice" for the different armies. It might be fun to go through GW advice and see if we agree.

And finally...
I see (now that I have the book in my hand) that we have conveniently left out the Shire, anyone complaining?

Cheers

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery

[h2]EVERYONE PLEASE READ:[/h2]

I'm glad to see that the new format of the Continuous Tactical Discussion (CTD) is doing well. Since this is an experiment, I would like to point out a few observations and ask for feedback.

LENGTH OF POST
I'm really happy to see that there is a lot to comment on (goodness knows, I've written some long ones myself) and I suspect that if we are going to continue to tackle large, multi-part subjects we may find it hard to keep track of who's saying what, etc. So as a guideline I suggest

• If you are making comments about several different topics in one post, please mark the different topics clearly, for example by using bold or CAPS or BOTH, e.g. HEROES and WARRIORS.
• There are a lot of ideas floating around, please use the quote option and make sure you're quoting the right person
• Don't feel you have to tackle everything at one time. If you have a lot to say about several different things, try breaking it up into multiple post, e.g. Ideas about Arnor in one post, and another post for Angmar

RULES
We seem to have a lot of confusion about rules. Remember, if in doubt look it up. Also, if you have an older version of the rules, feel free to ask if a certain rule is still current. Also, if you are discussing a certain model that has multiple versions as well as war-gear (such as Aragorn), try to be as precise as possible so we can all follow your point. Finally if you are going to make a comment about a rule, please look it up first and then let us know where you found it, i.e. which Rules-book and the page number. It will make it easier for us all to see how right you are.

SPELLING/GRAMMAR
I know that many of OR members are international and may be young as well, and with that in mind I'd like to mention that "spelling does count" I find it sad when a really good idea gets lost in the spelling and grammar, especially when I can tell that a lot of time and energy has gone into the reply. A spell checker may take a little more time, but as I like to say, "if it's worth doing, then it's worth doing well" (maybe that was Ben Franklin?).

PREVIEW
OK, admit it, when was the last time you previewed your post before you hit the submit button? By previewing you'll catch any stray tags and you can check your layout and content before you send it out into the world. And remember if you do find a mistake later, you can always go back and edit a post.

FINAL THOUGHT
Like I mentioned before, this is all an experiment and the last thing that I want to do is suggest that we come up with a set of hard fast rules on how the CTD should be run. Rather, I'd like to suggest that we strive to make this thread another example of why OR is a great, qualitative site.

Thanks for reading. If you would like to give feedback, please do so in the HOST/TOPIC LIST thread or send me a PM.

Cheers

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Curunír
Please visit My Gallery