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The Cost of Trolls vs. Khandish Chariots https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22314	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Slythar [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	The Cost of Trolls vs. Khandish Chariots
If anyone has some input I'd like to talk about Trolls. I use the following house rules. Quote: Throwing Weapon range is 2" per point of Strength. Single companies have +1 Defense added in the shoot phase. Shoot value bonus is doubled. (So if the value is +2, its +4.... if its -1, its -2.) Adjusted point values for trolls. Edited Jan31 60 - Cave Troll 85 - Mordor Troll 90 - Troll Drummer 95 - Isengard Troll 120 - Isengard Troll Captain 135 - Mordor Troll Captain 135 - Buhrdur Cave Troll 60points - Def 7 vs. shooting - Two S6 Throwing attacks at 12" Range Cheapest of the trolls and goes down easy. Throwing attacks not a big deal. 20 Points less than a Mordor Troll. Mordor Troll 85points - Def 8 vs. shooting - Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range Seconded weakest troll and a little harder to take down. Should be the benchmark for other Trolls/Monsters to be costed around. Can survive bow fire from long range. Ratio to cave trolls 3:4. Throwing attacks are decent. Troll Drummer 90points - Def 8 vs. shooting - Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range I think the Shield is better. The Drummer is usually trying to get the army moving quicker but since it cannot ATD its not a great upgrade. 10 points for a drummer is my command cost so I might aswell apply it here. Isengard Troll95points - Def 9 vs. shooting - Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range Extra defense helps. Can survive bowfire from any range. Every time you increase defense by two you are making them twice as hard to kill so 15 points seems more reasonable than 5points. Isengard Troll Captain 120points - Def 9 vs shooting - Three S7 Throwing attacks at 14" Range A mighted Isengard Troll for 25 points sounds right. You can have two Cave trolls for one of these. Mordor Troll Captain 135points - Def 9 vs shooting - Three S8 Throwing attacks at 16" Range For 15 more points than an Isengard Troll Captain you get one more Strength, Inspiring Leader (Trolls) and the Troll Charge Special rule. Strength works pretty much the same were every two points you hit twice as often. Buhrdur 135points - Def 7 vs shooting - Two S6 Throwing attacks at 12" Range A glorified cave troll but with some great rules. I never played him but seems like a good tool to have.

Author:	Draugluin [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
Fifteen pts for a shield? Way over priced. All you're doing is adding 1 point of defence.

Author:	Slythar [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
Since most units are Strength 3, instead of hitting your Troll on 6's... they are hitting on 6(4)'s with one company. You need two hits to wound and with that one point defense your odds are doubled. Chance to wound twice on Defense 7 66% Chance to wound twice on Defense 8 33% So your troll is twice as hard to kill for an extra 10%. I'd take the Isengard Troll everytime and who wouldn't.

Author:	NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
Do you always play using these house rules?

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
I would say 10pts for the shield at most and 5 for the drummer. Also, I have use Burhdur, I believe he took at about 200-230ts of troops before getting killed.

Author:	Xelee [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
Hi Slythar - just a comment: I think that what we pay for Isengard Troll Captains is about right, certainly within a coy of troops of the 'correct' cost. So maybe 120-150. Your rules (do you also double the effect of fight? I get mixed up amongst all of you) make them a little better than I am used to as well. If anything, I think you may have under-price the defense margin but this is still with the usual H2K/VH2K table so a random but significant chance of just dying right there and it is a wash? Buhrdur I would index to the troll Captain's price (ie 120-150pts) then lower by your defense margin but charge +50pts for the might, ambush plus two Epic Actions. His ability to duel is very useful and ambush + 8" move ATD means he can make good use of it. So you end up with 155ish points. YMMV

Author:	Valamir [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
I do believe that the changes would benefit the normally swiftly-killed trolls. Not by making them that much harder to kill in combat, but by making them more difficult to down in shooting. Overall, I think it is very effective- a nice method of changing it up and making a system more efficient.

Author:	Slythar [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls
Thanks for the input. I'm leaning towards the 10 more points for the shields so I'll bump the Mordor Troll up to 85 and leave the rest. The Hard to Kill chart really makes monsters a gamble. You never know if they'll last or go down first round. If you had a choice between Buhrdur or a Mordor Chieftain, which would you choose not factoring points. I think its pretty even and can make a case for both although if you put 10 vs 10, I think the Mordor Captains would win. (That might be a fun scenario)

Author:	Slythar [ Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Cost of Trolls vs. Khandish Chariots
So I changed the topic subject instead of starting new thread. Next I'd like to cost the Khandish Chariots in relation to the trolls. Pros over Trolls + Have bows + Move farther Cons - Cannot throw boulders - Much Less Defense - King upgrade is still only Hard to Kill Cancel each other out - Less Strength but have 2-H Weapons - Less fight but more dice for charging and more attacks So I cost them like this 80 Khandish Charioteer 110 Khandish King Thoughts? Thanks!

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