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Victory Conditions
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=21969		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Victory Conditions
Just wondered what kind of WOTR games do most of people play? What victory conditions do you play to? Or what have you found to be the best to make for exciting games?
Author:  Xelee [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
We play all three here....unless it is yet another evening after work and putting kids to bed and all we really want to do is grab a beer and stand on one side of the table or the other and have a crack at things.

IMO 'Seize the Prize' is by far the best of the three objectives. The other two have their little issues and just seem to lead to brawls in the middle/one side's deployment area. I've actually written a whole new mission to add to the mix and also don't forget that 'Attack of the Corsairs' could add some real variety.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
I don'y play any Victory Condidtions usually, just a plain old fight to the death.
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
If you play fight to the death do you play more than 8 turns?
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
If one side isn't destoyed by 8 turns, or thrown in the towel (tit is rare for that to happen), then we play until we run out of time, it can often go for 10-12 turns
Author:  daersalon [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Well you can't consider victory conditions just in isolation as the deployment affects too but...

Objective wise Field of Swords is seemingly a 'default choice' or at least 'keep fighting till someone loses everything'. Sieze the prize does make manouevring and holding on to objectives a nicely tense game. I too prefer Sieze the Prize, but end up mostly playing to the death/Field of swords.

Deployment wise again, Shieldwall is the easiest, and often the 'default' in ad-hoc games. Battle for the Pass on a properly dimensioned table is interesting for a change. Maelstrom of Battle is just carnage, I don't know if anyone would willingly choose that deployment. However, having had to play it under tournament conditions twice, it does mean you have to keep your army flexible and adaptable. I still wouldnt willingly choose that deployment ;) But it does stretch the mental muscles.

I think therefore Maelstrom of Battle deployment with Sieze the Prize would make a good testing environment. Maybe even making Rohirrim armies actually have some kind of advantage as befits their mobility (as they ahve a hard enough time already seemingly).
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
I love Maelstrom deployment, especially combined with Seize the Prize. Battle for the Pass skews the game too much toward xbow gunline lists IME.
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Xelee wrote:
I love Maelstrom deployment, especially combined with Seize the Prize. Battle for the Pass skews the game too much toward xbow gunline lists IME.


Maybe. depends on terrain. But 10 companies of uruk Xbows made no dent at all on a 5 nazgul mordor list.... sigh.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
did you put the betrayer in some of your xbows?
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
yes. but The Morannon winged of terror in, with 3 nazgul, and Black darted my Betrayer in Turn 2... Not a single xbow fired in the game
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Pity, wraith spam is unsitely, and neds fixing.
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Indeed.

But otherwise, Battle for the Pass does give one time to deal with Mumaks as they need longer to close... :)
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
daersalon wrote:
Xelee wrote:
I love Maelstrom deployment, especially combined with Seize the Prize. Battle for the Pass skews the game too much toward xbow gunline lists IME.


Maybe. depends on terrain. But 10 companies of uruk Xbows made no dent at all on a 5 nazgul mordor list.... sigh.

I tell newer players that they are probably too good to need to field a list like that. Sadly, too few listen to me. One guy even takes Corsair arbalesters with them....

Isengard with xbows should have been able to make at least a dent though, did he not Have Saruman?
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
A gunline of 10 uruks were heading towards the morannons crowded at one end of the board with 3 prizes. After the Isengard move, The Mordor army Winged of Terror in with 3 formations of 5 morannons and pick off Lurtz and the Betrayer with multiple Black darts. Druzhag (on the Mordor side) casts ruin spelsl, and summons spiders behind the gunline (yes afterwards realised it should have been the START of the move and was therefore illegal) Under the effects of pall of night the x-bows couldnt charge and wewre rammed on two sides by morannons with the btrayer and prowler spiders from behind.

The survivors next turn were picked off by ruin spells and strength from corruption, and Thryden leading the second crossbow unit had tried to Charge the Mordor Betrayer unit and heroic duelled him with Epic Strike... Result of whichj was a dead thryden, and the betrayer still firing on all cylinders.

As mordor had the priority now (helped by the tainted palantir) they blackdarted the isengard Druzhag, and Saruman managed to shrug his Black dart attacks off.

Saruman hopped in a beserker unit and fired off Tremors and Bolts of Fire,,, But in two turns, 8 companies of X-bows and 4 Epic Heroes lost. Saruman didnt have enough clout to turn the tide simply. Him and Druzhag together Tremoring 3 formations of Morannons on two turns, MIGHT have done a little, but Druzhag had already bitten the Mordor bullet.

The key dice rolls went the Mordor Armies way. Which didnt help and just accelerated things for Isengard

In short, the X-bows never had the opportunity to fire.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
The Isengard player has heard of Heroic shoot, right? Did he checker-board formations properly to protect flanks/rear of xbow units?
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
It was a question of Range. Lurtz accompanied the Betrayer in one x-bow unit, for heroic shot, and the secondary unit had Thryden. The fact was at the end of The Isengard move, The X-bows were out of range.

The Mordor player Winged of terror and at the doubled in. Black darted the isengard X-bow Epics, and the rest died ina duel.

The following turn, the Mordor player moved first, destroying more x-bows. it was more effective to charge the remainder few companies into combat and minimise flank and rear attacks, rather than stand and shoot.

That Isengard Army had fought every other army to a standstill, but collapsed spectacularly against the Nazgul list
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Looks like he needed to take Captains and more of a mix of units then. I hope he at least planned for something to get behind an opponent, when designing his list for an open comp?

To be fair to him, it is exceedingly bad luck to have to face Mordor in a Battle for the Pass deployment. Unless you can jump over them or Mumak through, it is a grind-fest that favours whichever army is most points efficient and Wraiths are in their element because the frontage is small and flanks matter less.

It seems even worse luck that Black Dart was so effective, since Wraiths lack the might to bump it and once failure chance and WOI is taken into account, along with the reality that key heroes will be in units set back 6" from the front-line, he probably shouldn't have suffered such heavy losses to that one spell.
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Isengard had Druzhag too, and uses wargs to counter charge from behind after summoning - But forgot to take them on the day! I think the main failing was forgetting the effects of Wings of terror and the huge distances it can cover. And lack of experience versus Mordor. And 6 after 6 on Black Dart success rolls and rolls on the black dart table... Enough to make even Sharkey weep.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions
Ouch, 6s followed by 6s so "its a game of skill" :lol: bad luck for the guy - to be honest I could see myself risking the spell rolls and not using WOI and then that'd happen to me!
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