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Hero to Troop Ratio
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=21900		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  FIGWIT [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Hero to Troop Ratio
I'm still somewhat new to the game and I've been wondering what ratio of heroes to troops most people find best. I have been playing an elven super-friends list(partly for the Ard Boyz event, partly because of it's price-tag, partly because painting them all didn't seem so daunting, and partly because I really like elves and it's the only way to play them when all my opponents are running Khamul, the Betrayer, and D7 infantry) but I traded away some of my Tau to another player for some Isengard. Since I have yet to play with it, I would like to know what I should be aiming for. I feel I'll probably be allying in Khamul, The Betrayer, Durburz, and Druzhag but I don't know at what point costs. I'm going to probably start with a 1000 point army and then up it to 1500 and 2000 after a while. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
I recommend you spend 25-33.3% of your pts on epic heroes.
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
I recommend you spend 25-33.3% of your pts on epic heroes.

Yeah, I'll second this. 1/4 to 1/3 your points
Author:  Xelee [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
Yes though I would extend that ratio to heroes in general. I do take more than that as a ratio if I take Hero-Monsters but I still tend to look hard at the amount of them I am taking vs troops. in general, Captains/Dragon Knights/Shield-bearers have their uses along with the Epic show-ponies.
Author:  FIGWIT [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
Xelee wrote:
in general, Captains/Dragon Knights/Shield-bearers have their uses along with the Epic show-ponies.


If I'm taking a captain however, would I not just take Thrydan in his place? It would mean losing one fight but I would have the option of moving him if his farmation's about to die along with Epic Strike and an extra resilience for dueling.
Author:  Xelee [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
There is only one Thrydan and he counts toward your allies allowance.

He generally appears in my Carn Dum lists (as the King of Carn Dum) and there is no reason why he shouldn't appear in your Mordor ones if you think he makes an appropriate template for a Mordor hero. However, when I take him I often still take Cheiftains (Captains) as well. There are benefits to be had from ganging up on targets in this game and using Captains helps this in a number of ways. They aren't the only tool in the toolbox but they are a useful one.
Author:  FIGWIT [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
He doesn't count towards your ally allowance in Isengard, does he? I mean, I would understand it thematically but he is part of the Isengard list.

Anyways, my rough draft of 100pts Isengard is looking like the following:

Lurtz
Thrydan
Khamul the Easterling

4 coy's Uruk-Hai Warband + Drummer
4 coy's Uruk-Hai Warband
2 coy's Uruk-Hai Warband + Crossbows
2 coy's Uruk-Hai Warband + Crossbows
4 coy's Uruk-Hai Phalanx
1 Isengard Ballista

Does this seem like too many or too few heroes? Any input would be awesome.
Author:  Xelee [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
Hi FIGWIT,

Yes, sorry all the mentions of Wraiths + Ardboyz instantly made me think of Mordor!

Captains are very useful for Isengard but of course you would always take Thrydan as well. In fact my regular Isengard opponent as one modeled as an Uruk that he calls 'I can't believe its not Thrydan' who inspires men by eating them.

In terms of your list:
The stronger units are definitely the xbow and Warbands with shields. Pike isn't that impressive in the game in that you get a real boost vs one troops type from the front, a marginal boost vs others and it makes you twice as easy to kills vs many things. I've seen ballistas used then gradually disappear from lists in favour of more efficient things like more warbands, xbow, orcs w 2HW (if Saruman is in there) and Feral Uruks.

Still, what you have is good though I would field those xbow as one unit and give them a Captain / use Thrydan at the right moments. I field mine that way in my Dunlending based force and it is a very flexible (still quite good in melee) unit that has the ability to march and fire with xbow.

Lurtz's bow ability and the Wraith's Black Dart are a nasty combo.

One option with the pike might be to convert them to sword and / or xbow guys to intermix with your other formations to beef them up instead. I would suggest they only took Pike in the movies because they knew they'd be facing Rohan. If I was fighting Rohan all the time I'd take pike too.
Author:  daersalon [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
I would agree at 25% -33% is a good ratio. But for Isengard and 1000 points that's Saruman and a captain and you're about done :)

Saying that for my 1500 point Isengard Tournament list, I am at about 45% epics. (no captains), but each epic has a specific role fitting in with the infantry selected. And no I haven't allied in Khamul... However with 10 companies of crossbows in total, not taking the Betrayer seems insane :)

My point is 25-33% is a good rule of thumb. Take more or less if you have a grand strategy, but any hero or lack of should be part of the 'plan' and not just 'filling out' because you feel you should take a few more. For example taking a hero light army but with masses of infantry is an option... there is just so many to kill it can daunt the enemy and there are too many formations for them to keep at bay and theya re more likely to be flanked or attacked from the rear. But you risk failing courage tests and being disordered more. It depends on your style :)
Author:  daersalon [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
Xelee wrote:
Lurtz's bow ability and the Wraith's Black Dart are a nasty combo.

Totally. Taking Lurtz and Saruman in 1000 points is expensive, but for 1500 plus a nice touch especially with a Nazgul with Black dart to kill pesky enemy epics from close range. At least burn their Might points trying to Will of Iron and survive.

Xelee wrote:

One option with the pike might be to convert them to sword and / or xbow guys to intermix with your other formations to beef them up instead. I would suggest they only took Pike in the movies because they knew they'd be facing Rohan. If I was fighting Rohan all the time I'd take pike too.


Exactly on the money. Unless you know you are facing large numbers of cavalry, X-Bows or shield warbands are the way to go. And as i have dozens of pike, many with snapped off pikes I converted many to X-bows myself. Now up to 10 companies as I mentioned just above. I would take 5 x-bow companies over 5 pike companies any day of the week.
Author:  FIGWIT [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
daersalon wrote:
And as i have dozens of pike, many with snapped off pikes I converted many to X-bows myself. Now up to 10 companies as I mentioned just above. I would take 5 x-bow companies over 5 pike companies any day of the week.

I'm not sure if this i off topic but do you mind if I ask you where those crossbows came from? Did you cast them or were they bitz from a different system?
Author:  Xelee [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
http://www.grippingbeast.com/shop.php?p ... 6&CatID=65
Author:  daersalon [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hero to Troop Ratio
Xelee wrote:
http://www.grippingbeast.com/shop.php?p ... 6&CatID=65


Absolutely... thats where i got mine from. I use a pair of pliers to bend up the ends of the curved bow part very slightly too, to give them a slightly more 'Isengard' look.

I also have some axes from Gripping beast, which I plan to arm standard Uruk hai with. I ordered the T-Bar axes on the previous page to Xelee's link - the axes have that 'square' Isengard look too, and I need something for all those (many) poor Uruks with snapped off swords. They really are very brittle, so a formation of axe wielding uruks will look nice. Its not totally unreasonable, I *believe* there was a 2-handed axe wielding uruk in the fellowship film.
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