I don't use Magic much, mostly because I tend to play Gondor. Instead of allowing both me and my opponent to have Magic, my tactics are the opposite: I don't have Magic so I'll make sure he doesn't for long either...
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| Author: | Naresh [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Casters |
So, how many casters do people bring to a fight? In 500 point games I tend to only bring one, in 1000 maybe 3 and 1500 4 at most usually. I recently built an Elven army using only 1 caster (1500pts) I'm going to playtest it today and see how it plays. It seems to me that most casters (especially evil) are too cheap for what they are. Take Druzhuug, 100 points for a mastery 2 caster who can also summon troops, which are worth far more tactically then their points value (due to flanks and rear attacks etc) Then the Nazgul, for 125 points you get a master 2 caster with an undeniably useful bonus ability, OK granted, most are on a par with the usefulness of Thranduil. But are casters too cheap for what they are and can do? For 100 points you can bring along a mastery 2 hero with 2 points of might (sometimes 3) that can level entire formations in a single turn. Are some schools of spells too strong? For example, those who play against Wilderness casters often refuse to use Defensible terrain due to the triple strength attack with no defence bonus, people fighting ruin tend not to group formations close together because of tremor. Are all the schools equal? Basically a thread for the thoughts of players on the use and (possible) abuse of magic. |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
Hi Naresh, In general Magic is a good way to go in this game due to the fact that it does things like Epic Abilities but costs no might. Now magic can fail but most casters can cast multiples of spells per turn, so it can stack up. Will of Iron can negate spells but this cots might, which costs a lot, and still only works on a 4+. Some players leverage the low cost of spellcasters in the Evil lists to really swamp their targets with magic. On the other hand, I think Elves need all the magical aid they can get just to get their special rules operating correctly - they struggle without it. Wilderness magic is pretty situation (though great vs Darkness), Ruin is very good, but Darkness is excellent - Wings of Terror and Pall of night (en masse, via multiple casters) can pretty well control the battlefield. It can make the game a little silly really. Its beatable, but one side sure has it easier than the other and I'd want to be packing a really 'hard' list if I had to take on something like that. |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
I don't use Magic much, mostly because I tend to play Gondor. Instead of allowing both me and my opponent to have Magic, my tactics are the opposite: I don't have Magic so I'll make sure he doesn't for long either...
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| Author: | Hashut's Blessing [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
That's a LOT of magic users in the army, in my experience. Also, Nazgul are mastery 3  I generally don't take one, but recently started taking Saruman (mosty because I play Dwarfs and I knew I had a courage reducing, spirit grasping Angmar army to face). I'd recommend imposing a house rule of one spellcaster per full 500 points or something. The Epic/Legendary casters are pretty dang cheap (in particular for Evil, even more so with the sheer number available), but the unnamed guys (shamans and warpirests etc) are fairly overpriced, IMO. It also seems odd that casters are so prevelantly available in Evil armies (only elves can have unnamed casters in formations). |
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| Author: | ForgottenLore [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
I take one (Druzhag), because that is all I have in my army list and I can't rationalize any allied spellcasters yet (I agree with Hashut that the generic ones are not worth bothering with most times). The could definitely use some point tweaking, especially in regards to magic, but so far I haven't noticed a BIG problem with them. |
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| Author: | Naresh [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
Druzhag needs points adjusting anyway, with his ability to call in extra troops he is far too cheap for what he does. OK, a few companies of wargs might only be 60 points, but there is the possibility of summoning 120 points (as an example, I forget the numbers). Consider the tactical advantage. You have some 50 odd point Galadhrim Elves holding a point against your goblin horde, why not pop up some wargs behind them and screw them via flanks? That in its own is worth far more than the 20 points it costs, it's like ambushers on steroids. |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
Hi Naresh, on his own, Druzhag is a good deal but not too worrysome. Forgottenlore has a good point, sure he is cheap for what he does but he is also the single Misty Mountains Epic Caster. If he is in a game with a proper dueler, he is going to have to hang back or he'll get singled out and killed quickly - Epic Cowardice is only going to save him 50% of the time. Elves have proper duelers (one costs 35pts!) and they should look to see Druzhag off early At 1500 pts, that could be four Wraiths easily, which is an entirely different matter. I find that even two Wraiths at 1000pts is pretty nice (I have 'skill' in picking the obvious spells lol) when I work them in tandem. |
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| Author: | daersalon [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
Well in general I agree. Compare: Standard Shaman --> Kardush the Firecaller --> Druzhag All at 100 points. Would anyone take a shaman really with an army of less than 2000 points? Any spellcaster is squishy if singled out by a hero. It's part of the tactics to keep em safe and part of the enemy's need to hunt em down if possible. I have taken Druzhag and kardush as an Isengard player - Though Isengard is by the Misty mountains and who knows where Kardush hangs out....  , but I haven't *quite* rationalised taking a Nazgul just yet even though it is suggested nazgul might go and visit Orthanc if needed...While good players may bemoan all the cheap casters (and I agree something is up with the Nazgul as written... Mastery 3 jeesh) Evil factions get fewer real meaty epic heroes than Good factions - basically less choice. Isengard and Misty especially. Instead we get the spell casters, and not that many of them (excluding the Nine) and of course more Monsters and some Monster heroes, though again a lot of these aren't that hard to kill. The mix is different for the two sides. |
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| Author: | Slythar [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
I play Gondor and I ally my 25% towards casters. I also play Mordor and I limit my casters to one on foot and one monster. Darkness spells just destroy the game in my opinion. |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
I am a big fan of Saruman the White. The guy is a beast, such a high courage and three spell lists. Sure there is no Overlord but for +50pts a fortune could mimic the effect of 'Touched by Destiny' a little. |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Casters |
I agree with Xelee. I go back and forth between Saruman the White and Gandalf the Grey in my Wood Elf army. Each has a slight edge in one area that the other lacks but the two are about equally useful and both good options for Good. Of course, you need a large enough army to justify those points on a Wizard, and an ally at that, but I think you should try them out. |
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