Sorry, NLJT, Mastermanje was first...

The Elven Kingdoms (NOTE: marks are not in relation to other factions, but between units of the faction, or elves wouldn't have more then a 5):

Galadhrim Regiment: At 45 pts these are sickly expensive, and only have as much defense as 25 pt Mordor Uruks (which hit harder to boot). Taking shields brings them up to 50 pts, but at least gets them D6, which makes them so-so reliable. In conjunction with Galadriel (lady) these end up being quite solid. Their hitting power is not what the price makes out, but if you can use some spells (galadriel, thranduil, glorfy) to lower enemy courage a lot, you can make them fail the courage test and then you suddenly have 6 dice more. That ends up nicely. It is, however reliant on there not being any high courage heroes around. Your base infantry, but not up to other's levels. Mark: 7

Galadhrim Archers: 50 points for a unit of archers that can double as squishy melee. As with all elves, they miss a bit of Defense and don't hit hard enough. In addition, Wood Elf archers are 5 pts cheaper, and have Enchanted Cloaks, a better defense for Archers then two points of D. I would only use them because they come in the Galadhrim boxes (and will, since I don't have enough gaming money anyway ). A 4.

Wood Elves: The cheapest Elf unit, these still are 40 pts for a unit that is only D3 (the same as 15 pt Orcs ). As such, I'd never rely on them as a base infantry, but they have a use as a flanking unit. Put in an Epic Raging hero (Galadriel, Protectress version) and they do hit like a truck. Point is, it's a 120-160 pt kamikaze. With bows, these make the best archers elves have, the Enchanted cloaks helping against return fire and the ability to switch to Thrown weapons if the enemy closes. Another 7.

High Elf Cohort: This made me laugh. 50 pts for a unit at D5? They'll die like golden flies! The only solution is, again, Lady Galadriel and her Epic Defense. They do hit a little bit harder then ordinary Galadhrim, but still not hard enough. My mark: 5.

High Elf Archers: Look what I said at Galadhrim archers and double it. They do the same, and are just as vulnerable, just 5 pts more expensive, which makes them a 3.

Wood Elf Sentinels: 5 points more then Wood Elf archers for a rule that requires you put a D3 unit in melee. Even at S1 you're gonna lose a lot of troops that way. A very nice idea, but the ability should have some range. As is, these are just Wood Elf archers at extra cost. One use I can think of is aforementioned Galadriel+Wood Elf combo, which may just not be kamikaze this way. Mark: 6

Galadhrim Knights: Very swift, rather hard hitting elves. If used with tact, these can be destructive, but if not, they are just 50 pt D4(5) cavalry. Never, ever take bows with them, as these 4 attacks per company aren't quite worth it combined to a little survivability. Another unit that would benefit of an epic Defense, but Galadriel can't be everywhere and is needed more in other places. In short, a glass hammer pur sang. Mark: 6.5

High Elf Cohort: Finally a survivable Elven infantry unit. Problem is, they're sixty points (and all metal). It should be possible to build an army around these folks and Wood Elf Archers and be playable, but that'd be rather dull IMO. To me, these are a nice second hard-as-nails unit in conjunction with the Galadhrim&Galadriel. Still, this is easily the best unit in the Elven list. Mark: 8.

Guards of the Galadhrim Court. 70 pts elves with pikes with the eternal D5 . Uruks are half the cost, and those are too vulnerable for their points. These are far worse, and don't even deal damage properly. To be avoided at all costs, no matter how good-looking the models are. A 3.

Rivendell Guard: Remember my complaint about the Cohort price? These are 125 pts for a captain and banner (aka 40 pts over), and then 5 pts per company in exchange for Stalwart. As such, just take the normal Cohort instead. Mark: 4.

Gildor's Houshold: I'm undecided on these. On the good side, they are Wood Elf Archers for 5 pts a coy less, and get a captain with Wilderness magic with them, as well as Ambushers. On the flip side, 160 pts is a heckuvalot to pay when you have a chronic lack of points anyways. As allies these are very nice and themed as well, for the elves, a medium unit. Mark: 6

Glorfindel: 3 Banes, F8 flying monster with Command magic? Brilliant. D7 as well, and VHTK means he can take some damage. Problem is, he's 250 points. A good tactic is to hide him behind your main line, "fly" him out (ATD), and charge your enemies back while the other engage to the front. With Spiritbane and Light of the Valar, this guy also makes clear why Angmar lost at Fornost . Mark: 7.5

Haldir's Elves: 95 pts for three might captain, banner and horn on Galadhrim archers, with Take Aim! These seem worth it at first sight, but Archers don't need banners and horns, and Take Aim is redundant. Ultimatly, these aren't bad, just worse then the common version and Haldir as an Epic. Mark: 5.5

Guardians of Caras Galadhon. Guards of the Galadhrim Court with a captain and Orcbane for 125 pts. Only enlarges the huge cost-efficiency problem of the Rare version. Don't take them. A 2.

Galadriel, Lady of Lothlorien. Brilliant. Just brilliant. Touched by Destiny+Epic Defense means those flimsy Galadhrim suddenly are no longer flimsy, but rock-hard. Coupled with Counsellor and Dismay and Command spells (Elves cause Terror!) she is a must. The linchpin of any Elven Army. My mark: 8.5

Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlorien. Though she is seriously violent (the same way Uruk Berserksers throwing 6'es are violent), she is less useful then the Lady version. Elven Fight and Courage is high enough, and Epic Rage means you have D3 50 point troops, not D5 50 pt troops, which is even worse (even as the extra strength is nice). She is only better then her alter ego in a pure Wood Elf army, due to the combo I mentioned there (and in any army comboed with Legolas over the aforementioned). Mark: 7.5

Celeborn, Lord of Lothlorien: A good all-round hero, nice fight, a bit of magic, enough might, and some nice Epic actions, but not as good as his wife. An especially good idea would be to put him into 4-6 coys of Galadhrim Knights, and use Epic Defense to keep them alive after they dish out the pain. Mark: 7.5

Thranduil, King of Mirkwood: For 125 pts you get F6, 3 might, Epic Strike, Epic Shot and Mastery two Wilderness. This is such a brilliant deal. A very good secondary hero or even as leader, he can add serious hitting power at a very low cost. Mark: 8.5

Elrond, Master of Rivendell: For 215 points you get Wilderness and Command, with F8 to make him a respectable duelist. As a mage however, he doesn't earn his keep, and his Epic actions are exactly what you don't need. As such, he's simply not efficient enough to earn his keep. Mark: 6.

Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood: Though very expensive at 200 pts, Crippling+Epic Shot gives a dead monster a turn. Epic Shot is brilliant anyway, and extra epic Defense is what you really need as elf player. Swift strike means that you can hugely reduce the amount of hits you take back, and that is always a good thing. Shortly, well worth his points. An 8.

Cirdan: Epic defense is nice, but you can do it only once, and Mastery 1 command (blessing of the Valar) and The Gift of Foresight saves you some valuable Elves. In short, he costs 75 points, and that's what you get. Mark: 7.5

Gil-Galad, High King of the Elves: F10, 6 might, Epic Defense, +2 to hit, Inspiring Hero (C6) and 2 other Epic actions make Gil-Galad pure awesomeness as a leader and fighter, but he is 300 pts, and that 300 pts of Elves you can ill afford to lose. In high-point games, and especially as leader of a Elf-Man alliance, he is perfect, but in the lower point games he's just too expensive. A 3 in under 2000 pts, over that an 8.

Arwen: Why would anyone take Arwen when you have Thranduil? For the same points, Arwen misses a huge epic action, 2 fight, and two resilience. Avoid her, there's far better around. Mark: 6.

Elladan and Elrohir: Together, these are basically 2 heroic actions for the might of 1, with a nice special rule to boot. Elladan can be used for an ES duel, Elrohir for an extra Epic Defense Alone (yes, that's possible) they are cheap ways to get another ATD in, replacing a captain for less points. Very useful heroes indeed. An 8.

Haldir: Far better then the Legendary, Epic Shot means you'll find a use for his might, and at 75 pts, he's cheap as chips. Haldir is a very useful secondary epic, leading a small formation and doing some damage while the enemy is preoccupied. A 7.5

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

Nope, I checked, and they have shields in their wargear but don't get the bonus for them .

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

GW are silly, they didn't give Ugluk's Raiders a bonus for their shields. tut tut.

Anyway, with Elves, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Wood elves useful only as archers, and with Galadriel. I agree that Galadhrim need shields and magic, which is why I was surprised when I saw an Elven player in my GW have a 1,00pt elf army with no magic, and Galdhrim with no shields, and high elf archers. I don't need to say what happened to them.

I would however rate the Knights lower, however as your ratings are in relation only to other Elves, I agree with you.

High Elf Cohorts and archers are actually 5pts higher than you thought. Even worse, Elves are terrible and your analysis is good yet again. I find myslef regularly agreeing with you and chuckling at the mistakes Gw made out as you mention them. Also "the Lady version" sounded humorous when taken slightly out of context.

You have the heroes pretty much as is, though even in an Elven list only, Arwen is less than a 5 (though not as bad as some of them elven units). Well done. These would be good if I wanted to tell a beginner about what is good, with you doing all the hard work. Thank you.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Are the High elves even more expensive? I'm quite sure they're 55 and 60, respectively. You shouldn't take things out of context .

Arwen has her positive sides. She's one of the cheapest casters there are, and has a rather nice fight as well. And then Epic Defense is always useful. That's why I gave her a nipt "pass". Really, her main problem is Thranduil costs the same and is 3/4x as good.

_________________
"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

Is it Dwarf time??? x x x

1. Ugluk has shields, it's just a typo, like saying "One to tree companies". 2. Thranduil has 7 fight. 3. Arwen is next to useless when compared to Thranduil.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

I was about to mention Thranduil's Fight value, but got beat to it.

Arwen is still faf far worse than Thranduil.

Oh and, Legolas' high cost makes him not as useful until you reach a high pts limit, otherwise he costs too much.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Unless your opponent has alot of FBs on the field. He would make a mess of the MRAF with CShot and EShot.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Yes Draugluin that does make him good, though Fell Beasts aren't that common. The MRAF could black dart him before he could call the Epic Shot, but in principal, he would definately help in that, and would take pressure of other heroes. But I thank you, as I forgot about Fell Beasts.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

It wasn't mended in the FAQ, so until then, no they don't.

That's what I said. She's just not totally useless when you already have Thranduil and want another cheap caster.



Yes, but that goes for every 200 pt hero in every list (maybe not if you take them as you sole hero, which you shouldn't do with Legolas)



That's quite a nice one, I'll remember it.

_________________
"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

Aragorn or Dain.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Re Grima:

That -2 Courage can slow down the enemy by reducing his probability of ATD and add a figure or two to failed Courage tests after a melee in which the opponent is beaten. What I find more useful is the -1 Fight. If I've read the rules correctly, it is 'always on'. Useful if Lurtz is Duelled by an Epic Striker, Lurtz's F10 vs Aragorn (or whoever's) F9.

Stephen

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"We may have cared about many things in life, but what will we have in our last moments.”
St. Teresa of Avila

I don't think the 1 point advantage in a duel is worth it, and Grima has the annoying notion of getting "discovered" when you need him most. I stay with my verdict.

NLJT, it's Dwarf time:

The Dwarf Holds (again, marks only relative to other units in the faction):

Dwarf Warriors: These folks are very good indeed. With shields, they are hard as rocks. Really hard rocks. Take 2 or more formations of 4 companies, and use them as the solid center of your line. While they will just refuse to die, they also hurt rather hard at S4 and a nice fight. A small (2-3 company) of twohanders can be a nice distraction that hits very hard (flank charges are your friend). The only problem lies in their high cost, but they are more then worth it. My mark: 8

Dwarf Archers: These look nice, and then you see the word "shortbows". That means a range of just 18", with effective fire within only 9", which is catastrophic. The only use I can see for these is as cheap melee unit, not as archers. They are D6, S4, which makes them quite good in fight, and they are the cheapest Dwarf unit around. Then the incidental shooting makes just a nice boon, not the reason to take them. Mark: 5

Dwarf Rangers: The only useful Dwarf Archers, I'd be quite puzzled by a dwarf army that doesn't field a unit of these with bows. Remember though, that even though they may be archers, they aren't afraid of a fight, and can put up quite a stand. Without bows, these are just not as good as normal warriors, and the same goes for the 2HW version. So long as you take them with bows, an 8. If not, a 6.

Khazad Guard: None can argue with S5, D7 with 2HW? The best unit in the dwarf list, beyond doubt. These guys will hack anything short of a Balrog to very little pieces, and are hard as nails themselves. Put in an Epic Rampaging hero for added nastiness, and charge them into something that hasn't got Khamul in it. The cost of 50 pts means that you won't be able to take more then 1 or 2 formations, but put 3-4 companies in each and watch everything go down. Mark: 9

Iron Guard: These have just one problem: Khazads are in the same list. S4, Throwing weapons just isn't as good as S5, 2HW. However, if you want them for fluff or the models, don't be afraid, a list can do perfectly fine with them. Move them towards a unit (if you can get a flank, all them better), use throwing weapons, and charge them. There aren't many folks who will want to argue with that. Mark: 8.

Vault Wardens: These guys would be frikkin' awesome, except for "we stand alone". This, coupled with no command options at all, means that the unit can't ATD (like, never), and that in turn means they'll get hopelessly left behind and then either flank charged, savaged by SfC, or recieve shatter shields, exsiccate, bolt of fire to the face every turn. In either case, their lovely D10 is useless. Only take them when your enemy doesn't have any mages (or you have Counterspell at least twice) and you plan on sitting and holding the line (which Dwarves do very well), or in case you (like me) are totally enthralled by the lovely models. Mark: 5.5

Dwarf Ballista: Just like any artillery, two of these come in very handy to blast big squads and/or monsters into oblivion. Deploy them in defensible terrain (so they can turn around), and fire away at the biggest formation or best monster in range. Just don't take too many, because they cost a lot. Mark: 7.5

More will follow tomorrow.

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

Alas that I missed the elves! For the most part I would agree, excepting a couple of small points, but I won't bring that up at this time. Rather...

Anyone wondered what the ultimate anti-Gorgoroth Orc Horde unit is? Several companies of Khazad Guard, with Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli in there. Aragorn stands there looking pretty with Anduril, Gimli calls Epic Rage and Epic Rampage, and Legolas makes it so you hit first. Wounding on 3s with a +3 to wound equals a dead formation (of anything), with only Khamul being able to stop it.

On other notes, the Vault Wardens really should be better. But sadly, aren't. And dwarf archers are not (imo) to be taken.

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"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”

Hmmm, I think you should definately do every army, if only to see what you think of it. Nice analysis yet again.

Dwarf Warriors - I agree, although with shields they work excellent in threes, and they work better in large formations with two-handers. I agree with your out-of-10-rating

Dwarf Archers - I agree with Valamir.

Dwarf Rangers - with bows they are useful but I disagree with you that you need them. I played against a very good Dwarf Army at 2,000pts which had no Rangers, he relied on bringing the fight to him, and he had ballistas, which Buhrdur destoyed. He won. You do not need Rangers, Dwarves are so high defence, they do not need to shoot.

Khazad Guard - completely agree. Spot on.

Iron Guard - Agree again.

Vault Wardens - Ibid

Dwarf Ballista - Ibid

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Well, I would say that a "5" isn't exactly positive. I was just suggesting a way in which they might still be useful (as you get them with the warriors).

Hm, then maybe they aren't as essential as I thought, but point remains they are the only proper archers in the list, and very good archers at that.

Dwarf Holds continued:

Moria Expeditionaries: Basically shield warriors with Goblinbane for 5 pts. When you fight a Goblin horde, these are invaluable. When not, they are a points sink. I would suggest just painting a warband a little differently and when your opponent plays Goblins count them as Expeditionaries, when not, count them as warriors (I hope your opponent wouldn't object). Tactics as with the shield warriors. Mark: A 6 or an 8.5 - no goblin opponent - goblin opponent respectively.

Iron Guard Ancients: These are Iron Guard with Orcbane for 10 pts extra. Though more widely applicable, they are more expensive, and so not as good a deal when fighting orcs as the Expeditionaries when fighting goblins. When your opponent doesn't have a lot of Orcs, they are an even bigger points sink then the Expeditionaries. Tactics as with Iron Guard. Mark: a 5 or an 8, depending on wether your opponent has a lot of Orcs or not.

King's Champion: This guy is brilliant. Huge Strength, fight and Defense, monster with might, Terror, this mighty dwarf will slaughter all in your path, and not die, if used correctly. If not, he's 175 wasted points. Keep him on the flank or behind an allied meat shield, and ATD or heroic move him out, flank charge, and let the carnage begin! Heroic fight is a very nice boon as well, and remember to charge something to the front of your target formation, to add a lot of attacks. Mark: 8

Ered Luin Rangers: Ambushing Dwarves seems nice, but aside from that they are just Rangers with throwing weapons, and you will probably remember how I felt about them. The ambush gives them a nice trick, but that's their only trick, and as such, your opponent will know what's going to happen and watch his archers/siege weapons. A rather useless unit to me, a 5.

Drar's Hunters: If the Ered Luin Rangers can do nothing but ambushing, these can! They are good shots, with Take Aim even more so (though IMO not enough to worth a might point), and can do some nasty things in close combat as well. Take two companies (maybe 3, if you have a lot of large terrain), and either ambush them in the enemy lines and fire at the back of his heavy infantry when they have a horde of angry Dwarves to their front, or put them in as a normal Ranger unit, but one that can move as fast as the rest of the army and still shoot (heroic shoot). Very useful indeed, but rather expensive. My mark: 7.5

Murins Guard: Shield warriors with a special rule to give them +2 defense. Quite handy, but beware Ruin casters, as shatter shields can really break your day (as with Vault Wardens). Furthermore, these are very expensive, 115 points for a 3 might captain and a banner isn't quite worth it IMO. Use them as a block in the center of your shieldwall, if you must. Mark: 6

Durin's Guard: Khazad Guard with two good heroes in them. A truly mighty formation, but the starting cost of 200 points could get you another 4 coys of Khazads, which are much better. If you do take them, waste no time in getting them into combat with something really big and really nasty that doesn't have an Epic Striking hero in it (as that loses you a hero and a lot of Khazads). Mark: 6.5

Floi Stonehand: It must be so funny to use him "Sunder spirit and your warriors are courage 0, now I charge them with my Terrifying formation" "I use Floi to negate Terror on that formation""***". Lovely. Put him in a squad of archers or a ballista, negate the special rule that is going to be the worst this turn, and dole out some extra might (+epic rampages) to your fighting heroes. All for just 90 points! Just do whatever you can to stop him from getting dueled. Mark: 8.

Other Epic heroes will come when I return from school.

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

The Moria Expedtionaries and Iron Guard Ancients would also be no use in a good vs good game.

Floi is someone I have never seen used, but looks very good. Removing Spirit grasp from those prized Ghostly Riders would be a nightmare for them. As with in SBG, he seems really good, though in WotR there is a greater limit over what he can remove.

Drar's Hunters need to be 3 companies, 2 comps is far too small for important archers, only 10-20pt bows should ever be fielded that small. Take Aim helps against the more powerfukl monsters in which you need as many D6 as possible.

King's Champions are one of the best Monsters in the game.

Also, who says Murins Guard cannot Lock Shields without their shields? Dwarves don't really need them or Durin's Guard though.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Gothmog brings up some very good points- Floi, amongst almost anybody, is a highly useful piece. Drar's Hunters are one of the few useful dwarf archer formations, and King's Champions are spectacular.

While Murin's Guard and Durin's Guard are unnecessary, I would take Murin's over Durin's any day.

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"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”

If you take Murin or Durin's Guards, you also have to take into consideration that they are legendary formations, thus removing the need to have an Epic in the army. 80pts for Murin (because the banner is 35) is pretty good for an epic with 3 might and Lock Shields (incidentally, it also raises base defense, not just the shield bonus) or 200 pts for Durin, Mardin AND a banner is pretty good. If you didn't take him, yes you could get 4 comps of Khazads, but you would also have to bring in another epic, the cheapest of which is Floi, who really can't compare to Durin for combat ability.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Murins guard cannot lock shields if their shields are smashed... It's in the FAQ I believe

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Leonardis
Army blog:Http://www.thewarofthering.blogspot.co.uk/