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4th Edition D&D...turning into LotR? https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=11660	Page 1 of 1

Author:	CaptainOfTheWolfRiders [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	4th Edition D&D...turning into LotR?
Well, when I was out Christmas shopping yesterday, I stopped in a large Barnes and Noble bookstore (my family likes books), and just for the heck of it, I decided to go over to the D&D shelf, inthe event that they decide "Hey, Wolfy likes D&D and miniature games, let's get him some of those instead of clothes". So, I was looking through the books and found one that was effectively a sneak peek of 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. At first, I was unimpressed, because they've changed they logo, and I prefered the old one...but anyway... So I got to the races bit and they said something like: "..all of the other races besides humans have some sort of disadvantage...but humans don't have any...we wanted to change that..." So, reading on, as curious as ever, I looked and they said something like this: "...one of the major themes of the Lord of the Rings trilogy is human corruptability, and so we saw it fitting to make our humans corrupt, and able to succumb easily to the will of others..." ...there it was. An obvious mention of the Lord of the Rings giving D&D insperation! Looking further, they also said how Elves were going to be taller and more like their LotR counterparts. I was estatic, they were finaly going to make D&D compatable for games in Middle-earth (read DM of the Rings and see exactly how that goes). Now, I'm sure they're going to screw up the lycanthrope rules, because that's all I ever play, but still... Just thought I might let everyone know this fun bit of news Wolfy

Author:	BrentS [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Wow, fourth edition.... I still have my first edition rule books. My original "basic red box" set is in shambles I think though. I was at a shop in the mall and they had a hardback book called the History of the Forgotten Realms. I almost bought it for nostalgia sake.

Author:	Beowulf03809 [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:05 pm ]
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I think ICE did a great job leveraging their Rolemaster system to create Middle-Earth Role Playing (MERP) and for the most part the RM rules have remained completely compatable with all the MERP supplements I bought so I used that as a foundation for any Tolkien-specific role playing I used to do. As is typical I got involved in role playing via D&D (got the 'ol Red box set for one of my Bdays back in middle school...way too long ago). Went very quickly to AD&D when I realized there was a way to decouple race from profession and enjoyed the first edition of that for many, many years ( I have the original Greyhaw, Elemental Evil, Dragonlance, etc.). I gave a try to Runequest and thought that was pretty neat but as soon as I discovered the Rolemaster framework I converted immediately and never looked back. It was so much more realistic and no longer did my 5th lvel fighter look exactly like every other 5th level fighter. Now mine could pick locks and sneak around nearly as well as a theif, though he was only proficient in light armor types and hand weapons, while another 5th level fighter has been training in heavy armor and mounted combat but little else, and another 5th level fighter has been working at a temple and can read and speak several languages, is a deadly assassin and even knows some basic magic. All of these differences are based on how you choose to allocate your development points each level, and can be further customized by the skill costs based on race and culture background as well as profession (you're from Rohan? Great, all horse skills cost half for you, but swimming is harder to learn). And RM has always had a nice set of features for positive / negative traits (random or selected) based on race. THAT is the flexibility that an RPG character system should have.

Author:	Dagorlad [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:41 pm ]
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I deeply disliked the magic system of Rolemaster/MERP - much preferred the 'Vancian' system used by D&D, flawed though it was. I used to own a copy of Chainmail - a paperback pamphlet which formed the basis of most tabletop wargames of the period but I have no idea where it's gone (lost while moving house probably). And then my sister bought me the red box of D&D together with the hardback Monster Manual (still got it) without realising it was for AD&D. So I had to buy the DMG and PH to go with it. I lost my D&D book when I lent it to a friend and then lost touch with him over the years. So much of D&D is taken from LOTR though, but not all of it. Try reading Jack Vance's Dying Earth series to see where the magic came from, and Fritz Leiber's Fahfred and the Grey Mouser for adventure ideas. Or even Robert Howard's Conan books.

Author:	valpas [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:06 pm ]
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I never liked the way the 'Vancean' magic system was portrayed in D&D and I still don't like it. It easily takes the mystique away from magic unless the player is very good at describing his/her magic to the others. But the same goes with Rolemaster. Luckily I have had luck with my players, for example one ranger was able to describe all his spells as requests to Oromë and performed some small rituals the system didn't require to liven up the spellcasting. In my opinion, you cannot very well create a generic magic system and generic races and apply them to any fantasy setting, because the demands of the world are always different. What ICE did especially well in their MERP books was adapting and creating believable races and cultures for Middle-earth and then making them work really nice with the rules, that is, starting from the specific game world. The freedom with character creation but compatibility with Middle-earth had a huge effect on me. I'm still running RM campaigns set in Middle-earth. Seeing D&D races coming closer to Middle-earth races is kind of completing the circle. Tolkien took a lot of influence from celtic and german myths to Middle-earth and D&D was heavily influenced by LotR and the older fantasy works Alan mentioned, but in a way made a 'generic' fantasy setting out of them and started influencing itself and other new fantasy literature. And now they are again moving closer to one of the original influences. -- Pasi (who's having too much time in his hands to ramble so long... )

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