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| Can You Make Mordor a Shooty Army? https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34326 |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can You Make Mordor a Shooty Army? |
In this post I said something that has been on my mind for a while, and it's part of a larger subject about using an army unconventionally: I want to make a shooty Mordor army (I also want to make a hard battle line of Wood Elves, so that's where I'm at). Normally, when you think of shooty Evil, you're either taking Haradrim, Uruk Crossbows, Corsair Arbalesters, or Hunter Orcs. How can you take Mordor and make it a legitimate threat from a distance? To what end? At what point does it become a legitimate threat, and are you sacrificing scenario playability to make this specific thing work? This is not a guide, this is me thinking out loud, hoping to prompt some discussion, and really giving myself things to try. So, first, I guess we have to look at the options:
Orc Tracker Mordor Uruk-Hai
Orc Tracker on Warg
Uruk Captain
Catapult
I'm not counting Trolls. Here's what I think is special: with the exception of the Cavalry options, each of these covers a very different role in the army. There's no real "why take X when Y is so much better?", which I've never liked. So where do they fit, and can you scare someone from range with them? Orc Warriors are the only ones on that list who can also take spears. I feel like if you're taking them, you're taking them to make your battle-line longer without sacrificing your Shoot Phase. I've only taken them in small numbers and they tend to be useful, I see them going nicely with Black Numenoreans. A defensive build, won't win shoot-outs, but you can get a really long, solid line without paying too many points. Trackers are built to horde. They love Kardush, Kardush loves them, I think they're the closest answer to what I'm looking for. 12 Trackers won't beat 12 Elf Archers, but you can get 24 Trackers for the price of 12 Elf Archers and suddenly you're looking a lot better. Now, in most games, you're not going to have 24 Trackers (you need 48 other warriors to make that happen), but 20 is an attainable number for 600-700 points. The challenge is, while you can set this up to win a shoot-off with just about any opponent, you don't have a high enough damage output for just shooting to be a viable strategy. The Trackers have to have a purpose once the lines close. Normally, I use my Trackers to lend their weight in combat, trap, etc once the lines close. They die in droves, because they're Trackers. I've never used Mordor Uruk Archers, but I imagine this is what they're made for. Getting in combat once the lines close. Having said that, they're not winning you a shoot-out, just by virtue of them being nearly double the price of Trackers and you not being able to take as many. As far as cavalry, Warg Rider Archers of any kind play the same game as Riders of Rohan. RoR do it better, but Mordor has extra flavour it can bring via its heroes. This is the only overlap in roles that I see, because they do the same job as far as I can tell, Orc Warriors have the higher defence while Trackers have the better shoot value. I prefer Trackers: I get around their defence by only charging into combats that I know I'll win. I can't speak for Captains because I've never used one with a bow. Siege Weapons are interesting, because more often than not they're just there as a deterrent. Catapults are there to encourage your opponent to get close, Siege Bows are that constant pest. Neither will ever do enough damage to earn its points back (though I do remember one of my first ever games many years ago, not knowing how Siege Weapons worked, and getting mauled by a Trebuchet because my opponent was using WHFB rules), but that one turn a game where they do hit will usually be significant. If it isn't, that's because your opponent spread out to mitigate their damage: that has value. Finally, the Great Beast of Gorgoroth. You're not really taking it for the shooting, that's just a nice bonus. One huge advantage its shooting has is that you can move the Beast further and hit more sensitive areas. In a sense, it's like super cavalry where you have the most mobile shooting platform that can get your Archers much closer to their priority targets, and really limiting the damage they take from return fire. It's mostly a big Stompy Stompy, but the Archers give you a bit of extra flexibility. With all that said, how do you make a shooting-dominant Mordor Army? I think the dominance can only come from numbers, so it's got to be Trackers on foot. Build it like a pure Orc horde led by the Shadow Lord. I've drafted a quick 700 point list with 40 Orc Warriors with various equipment, 20 Trackers, Shadow Lord, Kardush, Siege Bow, and 3 Orc Captains. An army like this will outshoot most things it comes up against, but its abilities to kill big things and grab most scenarios would require lots of practice to get, I think. So there it is, my long blab about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I think it's a really interesting idea and it's been in my head for years now, but I've never actually tested its practicality. |
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| Author: | Mr Gimli [ Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can You Make Mordor a Shooty Army? |
It's certainly an interesting idea and I would love to see that kind of army on the battlefield. Scenario and matchup will have the biggest effect I think on how good they will be, as will all shooting armies. Personally I would consider them in a more limited role in mind, such as targeting heroes mounts when the opportunity arises and then sitting back on objectives when that isn't possible. I have never seen Mordor uruk hai archers but I think that they could be interesting as they can obviously fight moderately well, compared to trackers. The defence would be a downside compared to the other options they have available for melee though. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Wed May 13, 2020 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can You Make Mordor a Shooty Army? |
I have been staring at this for days on end thinking of the reply. You're certainly right, Mr Gimli, a more limited role makes the most sense. Generally speaking, Mordor has decent archers at best and it's not easy to do tremendous amounts of damage with them. Now, I haven't been able to play a game since starting this thread, so I still have no idea how well or poorly this army would do. Doing the math, 20 Orc Trackers can kill about 2 D5 or D6 models a turn, double it for D3 and D4. They won't take too much damage in return thanks to the Shadow Lord. Are those numbers encouraging? Not really. The Siege Bow is an unknown quantity, when it works it shreds things, but it doesn't always work. The army has a good chance of winning any shootout that isn't against Wood Elves (who are invisible) thanks to the Shadow Lord, otherwise I think it needs to function exactly like what it is, a horde that has archers. Shoot shoot shoot, surround, trap. It has no real way of dealing damage in combat, and shouldn't get in combat until its numbers get overwhelming. Still, a fun exercise that could lead to new tactical discoveries for me. |
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| Author: | Salattu [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can You Make Mordor a Shooty Army? |
Ok, here is my suggestion for å mordor shooty årmy! Mordor Rånged Årmy 700p *Troll Chieftåin -12 tråckers *Shågråt, wårshield, heåvy årmor -6 morånnon orc -6 orc wårrior *Gorbåk -6 morånnon orc -6 orc wårrior *Mordor Wår Cåtåpult with troll OVERÅLL: 700p, 43 models, 8 might |
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