Alright so with the price increases and the nerfs to throwing weapons, do any other moria players find Prowlers and Blackshields still good? Blackshields I've pretty much always taken 6 of, but they are so pricey now, and hitting with throwing weapons and bows on a 5 for prowlers seems quite lackluster.

Also, opinions on the what are the best Moria monsters with the new rules.

Ok, I am writing this as a long time Moria player who has only just started to get into the game competitively and go to events etc, so take this for what it is worth:

Now that 'feint' exists, the blackshields rule is essentially useless, as a blackshield will almost always want to be feinting now - and thus re-rolls 1's against everyone. Blackshields are also still fight 2, so i prefer prowlers.

While alot of good armies are above fight 3, making it useless the throwing weapons, and backstabber rule, are things that will always be handy against good. They only need a 5 to hit if they move, otherwise it is a 4, which is pretty good odds. Throwing weapons in general act as psychological weapons that can prevent your enemy from getting within charge range, because they reckon you might not charge and just throw at them.

In red on red (evil vs evil) however, prowlers are much more effective. The majority of evil models are f3 (or even less) so you can actually draw/win a lot more fights, since you will likely outnumber the enemy. My prowlers ripped goblin town goblins apart at the 'close encounters' event in London.

Prowlers with shield are also very easy to make, and in game i think you pay a pt extra for their +1 fight, a point for their backstabbers rule, and a pt for their throwing weapons, which usually cost 2-3 points, meaning you actually save 1-2 points when you use one.

Anyway, on to a few things you didn't mention. Generally, here are the heroes i go for in 500pts:

Durburz
Moria shaman x2
Blackshield Shaman

Blackshield shamans are ridiculously good, convert yours to have a slightly elevated base and wham, you can snipe your enemy generals expensive weaponry into nothingness (great against Thorin, Aragorn, legolas), and his other spell is a nice psychological weapon.

Monsters are also well feared now thanks to hurl and barge basically ruining any formation in the game.

However, the BEST model if you are on a real life budget is: Warg Marauders.

Warg marauders are easy as hell to make, and are ridiculously good in game, 3 wounds and attacks, terror, 10" move, strength 4, and they are actually cavalry. The two bow shots are nice as well but i ain't killed nothing with it. All it takes to make these guys is 3 goblins (of which you can buy buckets of on ebay for nothing) and a warg (which there are loads of on ebay). I made a believable looking one and i am certainly not a great modeler.

I hope some of this helped, good luck!

The Blackshields rule was always useless against anyone who wasn't a Dwarf or Elf, so nothing has really changed there. Against those armies any Blackshield with a spear still gets to re-roll 1s. You buy Blackshields for their D6 not their fighting power, S3 attacks kill them on 6s, but kill Moria Goblins on 5s. The Blackshields S4 is pretty good too.

I really like Prowlers. Throwing Weapons have never been great, but they will get a few kills in each game. If those kills are on high value models like elite cavalry or infantry then the throwing weapons have paid for themselves.

The best thing about prowlers is their synergy with other units, specifically those that overcome the prowlers relatively low Fight value, like heroes, and bat swarms. If you can trap a model with Prowlers wielding 2-handed Axes and win the fight you can double up your strikes and do Piercing Strikes with +2 to wound. You have to be patient to pull this off, it's hard to isolate a juicy target (Like a Dwarf hero) until later in the game, but using a monster to disrupt enemy formations makes it a little easier.

I will always take a Bat Swarm or two, they are so useful as mobile screens, for holding up fast stuff and helping bring down targets with high Fight, pair a bat swarm with a Troll, a Captain or a few Prowlers and they become much deadlier than the sum of their parts.

I think the Cave Troll is enjoying a bit of a renaissance for Moria, it's cheap, tough and strong. It has to be dealt with or it will wreck face, but it won't be game-over if it dies.

_________________
Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

Marsbar, I agree with you on pretty much all acounts. I have always loved the goblin shamans, and have the same hero comp in my goblin army haha. Speaking of heroes, what do you guys think about the Blackshield Captain? Honestly I think he is quite powerful, like a mini durburz but comes with a free 2H. With the heroic strike rules I think a strong captain like him is quite good.

Damian I totally did not think about the blackshields with spears now getting s4! That is quite amazing, imagine combining s4 spear attacks with Durburz f4 or prowlers f3? Or heck they would go fine with monsters as well.

Finally yes I love warg marauders, I have been intending to buy them and make 6 of them before the next time I play, cavalry, immune to anti cavalry, and 2 bows? That's amazing!

What do you guys think about the named shamans and grobolg? Honestly for me I don't really consider the named shamans as I feel you would need to build specific lists for them, and I lack wargs, the warg chieftain, and spiders. Though the warg chieftain with druzhag is pretty crazy!

They always did, if they were backing up an S4 model...

Don't really have much to add to the thread, since I agree with what's been said. We've always liked bats, and we are starting to take the cave troll again. My son does have a fondness for beast armies, but that's a different topic.

sorry whafrog I wasn't clear, what I meant was previously like you said the strength of the support attack was that of who was being supported. So for Moria this meant Blackshields with spears tended to be just tougher moria spearmen. Now that the spearman's stats are brought into the combat, their s4 is actually relevant for supporting!

i have found that prowlers with bows are always a good choice because of their shoot value. It relativity easy to move them close to the fight and then rain arrows down on the enemy, and with the cave dweller rule you can find a high spot that is hard to get too. It's saved me in many games.

_________________
2014 Oathtaker (5 Points)

My WIP
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=27391=50&t=27391

I know a lot of interest has shifted to the Goblin Town goblins, but I still think the "old school" Moria style forces are valid with a lot of nice variety. Especially adding in the value of Cave Trolls having increased. I like a lot of the thoughts above and look forward to following more discussion here.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

So in another thread people were talking about ring wraiths. For a moria army, which ring wraiths or other non-Moria Evil Heroes do you take or consider good for taking in a Moria army? Personally I have considered buying the Undying just because I have 3 shamans in my current lineup, or the Mouth of Sauron just to have a cheap caster with variety.

You can't go wrong with the Witch King. He's easily the most versatile wraith, especially if you come up against a wizard. Even a budget 70 point WK can chuck Will into 'Your Staff Is Broken' to force wizards to burn Will or Might to resist it.

He also has more equipment options, more Will than most and is the only one that can have 3 Might and 3 Fate. This is great as Moria has loads of options too so you can tailor the WK to be exactly what you need to complement the rest of your army. And he's in the same sourcebook as Moria, what more could you want.

Saruman is pretty nifty too

_________________
Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

I like this thread

I really like Gundabads they're fantastic high strength high defence re-roll 1's against dwarves and elves

Warg marauders: crazy useful, seeing it has 3A 3W is cavalry and can shoot even when in combat means it can snipe out good spear suport whilst not being able to be aimed at. And due to how much beating they can take they are great anti cavalry unto they're own, and let's not forget they count as goblins(which means fury aplies) and they cause terror too

Dweller in the dark: that unit is formidable, it has high F and C values, it can replenish wounds after kills damn useful, moves faster than infantry, and is resistant to magic, I remember having a battle in bristol against this kid who was so smug that his uruk shaman pulled off a transfix on my dweller only for me to remind him It was resistant to magic and pass the resistance test, should have seen his face, then the dweller killed loads of his guys the following combat hilarious.

Gundabad shaman: wonderful genocide machine, I know alot of people do not consider the tremor spell to be worth casting, well it is definitely worth the will point, my tactic is to try and flank a shield wall and let this one rip through the front line, potentially 12" of models knocked prone and a S6 to boot, a real game changer, I finished off an isengard troll like that once and killed 6-7 uruks at the same time simply brutal.
Shatter is great against named heroes mostly( aragorn, gilgalad, gandalf, legolas, thranduil, haldir, saruman, radaghast, murin and drar, gimli, dain, durin, thorin, etc...)

Groblog: better than chaneled fury as the shamen can save their might for something else, also Groblog has 3 might and is really cheap at only 5pts less than durburz.
And let's not forget the bat swarms, these guys have won me many a game a great way to deal with heroes on steroids( heroic strike)

_________________
http://grungehog.blogspot.co.uk/

Prowlers no longer have the option of getting a bow!

And all that waisted effort I put into conversions.

wynr

One more idea for the use of Gundabad Blackshields: A drum is very useful for a Moria army. It increases the courage of the goblins and it has a banner effect for a range of 18". There are two kinds of drums in the lists, one with plain goblin drummers and one with Gundabd Blackshields. The plain goblin drum can only be beaten when stationary. If you wish to reposition it, it will loose its effect for this turn. The Gundabad drum can be beaten during movement. Not bad. But the disadvantage of the Gundabad drum: killed drummers may be replacedtoo, but only by Gundabad Blackshields. For the plain goblin drum, it can be just any goblin near enough to the killed drummer. So my idea is to use a Gundabad drum together with some extra Gundabad Blackshields, who can give shelter with their shields and provide reserves for the drummers.