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Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30893		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Erunion [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Greetings, everyone.

So, work continues on the next edition of the Battle Companies ruleset and I have a question that I think needs wider consideration. Would you like to see some house-rule profiles included as OPTIONAL promotions or would you rather stick to just GW profiles. I ask because some of the factions are very well fleshed-out with extensive ranges of miniatures and profiles, while others are very limited in what is available to them.

Let me give you an example. In the Arnor company, there are only three troop types available: Warriors of Arnor, Rangers of Arnor, and Hobbit Archers. None of these troop types can be promoted according to a pure Arnor army list, however, I feel like it would make sense to introduce some additional troop types to complete the list. An example would be using the Knight of Gondor profile to make a Knight of Arnor profile, so that Warriors of Arnor would have something to aspire to. Another example would be some sort of King's Guard-type warrior which would be based off of Citadel Guard or GotFC. A final example would be to allow an upgrade for the Rangers of Gondor similar to the Ranger of Ithilien upgrade.

Keep in mind that all promotions are optional, so if your gaming group decided to only play with official profiles, then you would ignore any of those promotions. I would also try to preserve the unique qualities of each faction, so that they don't all become too similar.

So, with all that said, what do you guys think?
Author:  Silverhand [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Totally agree.

I think its pretty much necessary for some armies. Also we lack some profiles for units that took part in Hobbit we could use in SBG. I guess goat cavalry would make Erebor more attractive alternative to Durins Folk.
Author:  Sithious [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
I think it is a great idea. Many armies I don't bother with because they lack any growth.
Of course Arnor has pretty solid warrior profiles. But there is room for Guard type profiles, I also think more races could use berserker style profiles (mean, brave and dumb), as well as getting magic (a little) to all the races even if it is not as easy to acquire.
Anyway, I say go for it.
Author:  orc-archer [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
I totally support this idea.
Author:  Erunion [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
I've noticed that a few have marked "Yes, with reservations." Care to share what those reservations are?
Author:  Nikrandonia [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
PM Sent :)
Author:  Sithious [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
My reservations would be in balancing a force. Rangers of Arnor to stay with your example would be heading toward being a Ranger of the North (without the MWF) which is fine but would that lessen what it means to be a ranger of the north? not sure. But if you were to have a class called "Hawkeye" which are like Elite Rangers that have fought along side the Dunadan. that maybe have courage 4 and D5 but still S3 they would be a sort of hybrid, halfway there to being a Ranger of the North.
So my reservation is only in making sure that a promotion doesn't lessen other models roles, nor make the model over powered.
Looking at a Warrior of Arnor for example they have stats almost equal to a Guard of the Fountain Court, only change is 1 courage and the Body Guard rule... so if you made a Gaurdian of Arnor and only made those changes then it would be pretty cool, If you even increased Strenght (for it's points cost) it could be ok, but if you increased too many stats it could make the Warrior of Arnor promotion a bit too tough for another BC to face on the table. if that makes sense. Or even a Knight of Arnor that has Higher D and Strength and Courage would be interesting as long as it is points checked but he would be a hard guy to fight.
Author:  GreatKhanArtist [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Something to park in the new magazine, perhaps?
Author:  Jacob [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
This may not be ideal for the Battle Companies route but I've been creating lots of profile with my brother for a while now that work well. Most are heroes but there's a few other things in there which may be worth a look to give you some ideas.

Here's the link to the topic: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30895
Author:  Dikey [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Silverhand wrote:
Totally agree.

I think its pretty much necessary for some armies. Also we lack some profiles for units that took part in Hobbit we could use in SBG. I guess goat cavalry would make Erebor more attractive alternative to Durins Folk.


I think anything coul make Erebor better. Durin's Folk has no spear, but a good amount of interesting units (Khazad, Iron Guard, Vault Wardens). Erebor has only basic infantry and Grimhammers (whom I hate).
The Erebor Spearmen could turn into Iron Hill Pikemen, the swordsmen into goat riders...and that's all. Maybe we shall wait for the extended edition to see if there's anything else, before jumping straight to the Guard archetype
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Definitely wouldn't mind seeing some new options/profiles. Much of the fun of running a BC campaign is seeing your warband develop, with members gaining experience, being promoted, at some point becoming heroes.. and losing out on the promotions is a big deal, lessens the attractiveness quite strongly.

First priority would be to keep the lists distinct, unique. Not every army needs to have models with 2 attacks, models with heavy armour, cavalry and magic. Flavour should also be kept by looking at logical options: Arnor is an infantry warband, if all promotions suddenly make them into mounted troops, that wouldn't really fit (so instead, the only mounted option could be from reinforcements, or as heroes - as it is now).

Another thing to consider would be the models. With current pricing and large numbers of OOP miniatures, getting the right minis is one thing, but converting them to become new troop types probably isn't as attractive. So if Arnor or Númenor gets some new, elite heavy infantry: simply make them resemble Fountain Guard, so that those figures could be used. Cavalry could be not-Swan Knights. Many designs are so iconic that alternative figures are tricky to find, although some may be available; e.g. wild Dunlending troops could be Ulfhednar, Viking Berserkers or any similar figures from producers of Historicals.

Conversely, I also feel not all profiles have to be included in a battle company list; the current Gondor list looks very cluttered, as all profiles are somewhat shoehorned in (also leading to a lack of feeling of promotion; e.g. Ithilien Guard to Ranger of Ithilien).


In a way, it did the reverse with the Mirkwood list: the elite options existed (Rangers, Palace Guard), but normal troops were lacking. I somewhat tailored it to the figures I owned/planned to buy, hence the lack of Mirkwood Elves with bow.
Starting company are regular Elf Warriors (3 blade, 2 spear, 2 bow).
Promotions and Reinforcements as follows:

Promotions
Elf warrior with Elf bow > Mirkwood Ranger
Elf warrior with Wood Elf spear > Mirkwood Elf with Elven glaive
Elf Warrior with Elven blade > Mirkwood Elf with Elven blade and shield
Mirkwood Elf > Palace Guard with spear and shield

Reinforcements table
1 No reinforcements
2 Elf warrior with Elven blade
3 Elf warrior with Wood Elf spear
4 Elf warrior with Elf bow
5 Choose one of the above
6 Roll on the Elite Reinforcements table below
Elite Reinforcements table
1 Mirkwood Elf with Elven glaive
2 Mirkwood Elf with Elven blade and shield
3 Palace Guard
4 Mirkwood Ranger
5-6 Mirkwood cavalry


*****
Dropped the "1-2 = nothing" as requiring 4 gold is already a big, big thing. Besides, equally-costed Dwarves also only don't get reinforcements on a 1, for just 3 gold. Cavalry only available through reinforcements, to keep them rare (but a decent possibility over the course of a campaign). Also added a note that the Palace Guard and Cavalry special rules work as if the battle company leader is Thranduil.
Author:  Isilduhrr [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
That's very well thought out Coenus Scaldingus, I like that list.
Author:  Valadorn [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Middle Earth Wardens guild (my friends here in Greece), we are running a 2-month battle companies tournament. We can ensure you that more armies are actually needed! And the mirkwood elf company needs to changed asap. It is too much problematic. The list that Coenus made seems much more playable.
Author:  Dior [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
I would like to see some equipment options.

Lets say when you have plenty of influence you could perhaps purchase a boat or hire one... or a wagon... and perhaps allow those wounded which would normally cease to be a part of the company to be a part of the baggage train.

This could allow some kind of bonus in battles.. perhaps a free priority or some such.

I know the points difference part has always irked me as the re-rolls never seem to be used enough or forgotten about.
Author:  Paradigm [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Definitely! The more options the better! Feel free to pilfer anything from my BotFA supplement (link in my signature), there's full lists there for The Iron Hills, Laketown and Azog's Legions.
Author:  DrChaos [ Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle Companies: Opinions Needed
Some BOTFA profile would be good (amored morkwood, morkwood Calvary ect) maybe lake town starts with militia then upgrades to guard then guard with warrior of dale profile ( call it a lake town masters guard or something).

Game is still brilliant though!
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