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Beorn and Grimbeorn https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21217 |
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Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Beorn and Grimbeorn |
I started this to see what others use for the Beornlings. Beorn stats are in another thread, I posted mine here for reference. edit: After extensive playing with Beorn I have changed the stat-line and how he can change into being a bear, all which are in bold (8/2012) Beorn: 130pts Human Form: F4 S5 D5 A3 W3 C5 Might 3 Will 3 Fate 2 Bear Form: F6 S6 D7 A3 W3 C5 Might 3 Will 3 Fate 2 Bear Form:: F7 S7 D7 A3 W4 C5 Might 2 Will 3 Fate 2 Human Form:: F5 S6 D6 A3 W3 C5 Might 2 Will 3 Fate 2 Human Form:: Using a 2hd axe, only a 2hd axe, without the -1 penalty to his FV due to his strength. Bear Form:: Terror - as in the Main Rulebook. Shapeshift: Beorn can expend 1 Will point to shift into bear form at any time during the battle/game. Once changed Beorn is unable to transform back into Human form until the end of the battle/game. Bodyguard - Must nominate 1 hero at the START of the game PRIOR to placement of troops/figures that Beorn feels an overwhelming sense to protect (unbreakable bond). If that Hero is immobilized, transfixed, knocked-down, killed or otherwise taken out of "action;" Beorn goes into a Rage that automatically transforms him into Bear form. He then must do all that he can do to charge, he is allowed one and only one free Heroic Fight, the model that incapacitated the nominate hero (up to and including the use of Might for Heroic Moves and Heroic Combat). Once in Rage, Beorn is unable to transform back into Human form until the end of the battle (NOT the fight). Standfast - 12" only with other Beornlings, either in human- or bear- form. Once he switches into Bear Form, for any reason, he STAYS in Bear Form till the entire BATTLE is over. There is no swapping back and forth. He also does not gain advantage of other Good Hero's Stand Fast. He is his own entity, his own...race. **To clarify a few points: My profile for Beorn allows him to switch into Bear Form at will, due to Rage, because once he switches into Bear Form he is that till the Battle ends. He also can use M/W/F in Bear Form because in the books it gives me the sense that he is not "gone"...not a true wild animal. So he is able to still use M/W/F. Also Fate is a mystical thing a "something" that makes Hero's ..hero's and not mundane. So his abilities play both in Human- and Bear- form, after all Beornlings KNOW Beorn is Beorn. I do like the "Hatred of Goblins" idea. Where if he's within 6" of a goblin/warg he does not have to take a Courage Test. Though I can see that being misused...ex. Charging a Terror monster with Goblins nearby; instead of charging the goblins/wargs that generate his hate. As to the +1 wound, I did think about adding it but decided against it cause I wanted Beorn to be of flesh and blood ((Though a 145pt version of Beorn WITH the +1 wound ability can be feasible)) . If he was to "much" then no one would allow him and where is the fun in that? I would have given him 3 Might, but then the sense of Beorn being an imposing creature would be negated if he was easily transfixed/immobilized/etc.** This puts him on par with Buhrdur, Warg Chieftain, Mordor Troll Chief, etc. and still give Beorn Bear Form the feel that he was in The Hobbit. The Defence was the one point that drew a lot of thought. He does have in literature a crazy "iron-hide," but that was against goblins. So I finally decided on having 1pt less than most of the mentioned Trolls and left it at that. The Attacks, well after looking as some of the "Hero" profile from both sides...3 attacks seemed about the highest and rightfully so. His low point cost is due to the fact that once the nominated hero goes down he is "out-of-control" ..in a sense. He's always throwing himself in combat, no tactics to it... just wham-slam-bam. (course I've seen players in my club not follow this guideline, which defeats the purpose of having Rage) |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
Grimbeorn: per LoME he is 65 points. Good points base, he is after all the Chief/King of the Beornlings..ok, but tricky because he is a Werebear. Human: F5, S4, D5, A2, W2, C5, M2/W2/F1 Move 6" Bear: F5, S6, D6, A2, W3, C5, M2/W2/F1 Move 10" Stand Fast: Only with other Beornlings (allowed in both Human- and Bear- Form). Terror: Only in Bear form. Shape Change: Only can do so once per Game, must roll a Courage test to do so. Again, not per Fight but per Game. Again, only can switch back to human-form AFTER the Game is concluded. Purposely tried to keep him in line with other 60-65 point Hero's. The trick was trying to make him fit into a point base that allowed room for the Bear-Form abilities. -Scar |
Author: | whafrog [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
I don't see why anyone would start the game with Grimbeorn in human form. His bear form has no drawbacks and is overall better than a cave troll. Same with Beorn, there's no reason to go human. |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
Beornlings. per LoME they cost 8 points each. Beornlings: F 4/4 S3 D5 A1 W1 C4 Move 6" Bearnlings are a large, tough and hardy race. They are clad in armour and carry a hand axe or sword. They may be given the following items at additional cost:: Bow.............1points Spear...........1point Bodyguard: Fiercely loyal to their Chief all Beornlings will automatically pass all Courage test as long as the nominated hero, either Beorn or Grimbeorn, are on the table. If the nominated Hero is killed or leave the table, the Beornlings will use their own Courage. (edited due to wording) |
Author: | whafrog [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
Compare to RRG which also have bodyguard, I think your stats are under costed. Also, if all Beornings have bodyguard, then Beorn and Grimbeorn's standfast isn't of any use. You're saying the warhead is armor, but only heavy armor gives D5. Lastly, I don't know where the longbows come from, they should just have normal bows. You could probably make a case for S4 though. |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
whafrog wrote: I don't see why anyone would start the game with Grimbeorn in human form. His bear form has no drawbacks and is overall better than a cave troll. Same with Beorn, there's no reason to go human. You start as human because Beorn and Grimbeorn are Werebears...not Werehumans. Otherwise, make a bear stat line and run with it. As I stated this is my profile for them that I use for my games. Yes, you are right; the Werebear forms are stronger than the human form...but for balance, flare, storyline there has to be a trigger to make the switch. For Beorn its seeing his friend (nominated Hero) go down. For Grimbeorn it's a Courage roll, he has to concentrate on switching. The longbows were to be normal bows. You are right about the Bodyguard rule, but they have to nominate one of the Hero's. Be it Beorn or his son Grimbeorn. This is based off if a person elects to bring both Beornling Hero's then they must nominate a Hero that they use the Bodyguard rule. I guess one could make a stat line for a "captain", but then (in my eyes) that would be heading down the path of making an army of Beornlings. They are meant for flare, like the Woses. You mentioned the Rohan Royal Guard as your example, but they are a base of 10points and have a 1point higher Defence than my rendition of the Warrior Beornling which are a base of 8points. As for every House Rule: Like it or Leave it. Its all about having fun. |
Author: | whafrog [ Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:01 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
Quote: ...but for balance, flare, storyline there has to be a trigger to make the switch. I think I was confused by this, it doesn't sound like there's a trigger: Quote: My profile for Beorn allows him to switch into Bear Form at will... Maybe you meant the opposite? FWIW, I think Beorn's profile and points are good. Grimbeorn though is costed only for his human stat line and it doesn't take into account his bear stats. And he can make a Courage roll easily, so why wouldn't he do it on the first turn? Then you have a 65 point model better than a cave troll. Quote: You are right about the Bodyguard rule, but they have to nominate one of the Hero's. Be it Beorn or his son Grimbeorn. Maybe if they were both on the field...but that doesn't seem likely if they are just flavour like Woses. The bodyguard rule is basically a 2 point rule (compare RRG with something equivalent that doesn't have bodyguard). Beorn has a standfast of 12" and that's presumably factored into his cost. But if he's the nominated hero, standfast doesn't matter. When he's alive, all the warriors pass courage automatically, he might as well have no standfast at all. If he's dead, no standfast nor bodyguard rule. So points are being spent, either in the warrior or hero profile, that are wasted. IMHO you should pick one or the other rule. Quote: You mentioned the Rohan Royal Guard as your example, but they are a base of 10points and have a 1point higher Defence than my rendition of the Warrior Beornling which are a base of 8points. Right. Customarily that +1D = 1 point, so your Beornings should be 9 points. Quote: As for every House Rule: Like it or Leave it. Its all about having fun. ? Are you saying you don't want feedback? Or only positive feedback? |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
LoL easy Tiger, its a saying I say all the time. Its all good. My base profile is off the Citadel Guards that are 8pts and have Bodyguard (for the Beornlings) Grimbeorn can have a reduced Bear Strength, 1 less Wound, and Courage of 4. That would be more in line? As for the Stand Fast, reduce it to 6". The Bodyguard rule can be dropped. It would be nice to have something though. Kinda like the Swordmen of Lamedon. |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
After playing testing him a bit, this is what I settled on. Edit: after extensive playing I have made a change to how Grimbeorn can shift into bear form, all which are in bold (8/2012) Grimbeorn: 70 points Human: F5, S4, D5, A2, W2, C4, M2/W2/F1 Move 6" Bear: F5, S5, D6, A2, W2, C4, M2/W2/F1 Move 10" Terror: Only in Bear form. Shape Change: Only can do so once per Game, must EXPEND 1 WILL POINT [[omit: roll a Courage test]] to do so. Again, not per Fight but per Game. Again, only can switch back to human-form AFTER the Game is concluded. I am still toying with the the Beornlings having the same bonus as the Swordsmen of Lamedon have. Where is the Beornlings are with a certain range of Grimbeorn they have the effects of being under the influence of a Banner. Still seeing how that plays. Running around with about 5-6 Beornlings along with either Beorn or Grimbeorn makes for a great scene. Thanks Whafrog for the twik'ing. - |
Author: | typhoon2 [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
I have a large game coming up against opponents who use LoME as a guide but prefer themes. Since I'm working on a Erebor/Dale theme, there will be some of Thranduil's folk, the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain, King Brand's chaps, Glorfindel paying a visit, Gwaihir and Radagast popping by, and the defenders of the Carrock coming up to Dale to help out. For simplicity, I am using Rohan's Grimbold as Grimbeorn, since I don't recall the son as having the same were abilities as the father, but the Helmingas rule allows extra-strong humans for the Beornings. |
Author: | ScarpeIron [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Beorn and Grimbeorn |
Made some changes to the profiles. We've found it to be much more inline to what was troublesome as well as still keeping to the story of Beorn. |
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