Animals other than horses have been used in war, notably elephants, dogs and bears, so i thought it'd be cool to whip up some house rules.

Dog F S D A W C 4pts (moves 8" and counts as armed with handweaps)
3 3 3 1 1 2

Bear F S D A W C 30pts (moves 6" and counts as armed with handweps)
4 5 4 2 3 3

Special rules:
- Feral: Animals take courage tests every turn before they move or flee.
- Frenzied: Animals may find it difficult to distinguish friend from foe. On passing their courage test, roll a dice, on a 1 they may be controlled by opponent for that turn.

Slaver(man) F S D A W C M W F 25pts (Whip, hand weapon, armour)
3/4+3 5 1 1 4 1 0 1

Special rules:
-Whip: Counts as throwing weapon with range 2" and S2
-Slaver: Animals within 6" do not take courage tests and are allways controlled by owning player.

I suppose these could be used by good or evil, but i think its more fitting with the evil style right?


So whadaya think eh?

I like these, especially that you need the slaver to keep the beasts in line. I'm thinking though that the slaver should be based on the basic profile of the race it represents.

Dogs already have rules. Check out Farmer Maggot from the main rulebook. I don't know what it is in inches but 6" I believe is the normal troop movement which is 14cm, and dogs move 20cm so they definitely need to move more than 8". Check the rules from the main rulebook. Also bears definitely need to run faster than normal guys. They should run as fast as horses. Bears can even run 60 km/h which is what the fastest horses run at full speed. The slaver rules are great though and the animal special rules but I agree that the slaver profile should be based on the basic profile of that race. I think that the bear should also be fight 5 and cost a 10 points more. With 2 attacks and 3 wounds its almost getting on the level of a troll.

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These would be great for Battle Companies.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Cool how about F5 and D5 but only 2 wounds for the bear?

I would up it to 8" but 10" just seems like a lot for something with that kind of power, i know theyre pretty hot on their heels in reality but 8" seems sufficient for the game.

And for the slaver how about you take a basic warrior statline, then add 20pts for the might, will, fate and a point of courage? So for example a uruk slaver would be 29pts
F S D A W C M W F (white hand uruk)
4 4 5 1 1 5 1 1 1

aaaand i took the dog stats straight out of the Ruin of Arnor supplement, they do move 8", i picture them being faster than men but slower than horses.

They all look great, and I like how the slaver lets them function effectivley. At first a thought the Bear might be a bit of a worry as 30 points can leave the board so easily, i would give the bear and extra point of courage or maybe put his points down by around 5. This is becaause if you want all your warriors to fight for you you will have to buy alot of slavers and it already looks pretty expensive if your standard race is something like an Uruk.

Other than that, they look very good. The Dog should move 20cm (not sure if 8in is 20cm or not). I think the bear should move the same as the dog or the horse, you decide.

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Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

Bear can move 8" and will be courage 4, with 2 wounds and F5 and D5, seems sound for 30pts. I used the Half troll of Harad as a model, then modded the courage and move values.

Check this out
Incendiry pigs (6pts, moves 6")
F S D A W C
1 2 3 1 1 2

Rules:
Flaming Bacon:
Slaver can declare he is igniting the pig during his movement if he is in base contact with pig. Pig makes a full move in a straight line, after this, any animal (horse, oliphant, camel, etc) withing 4" of pig takes an immediate courage test.
After this pig takes a S3 hit, if survives he takes a further S3 hit every owners movement phase.
If survives, the pig moves randomly each turn (scatter dice) up to maximum move, if in base contact with a model it counts as a charge and that model takes a immediate S3 hit before the combat.

I love the chaotic image of this one

And if they fail the courage test..?

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

Hmm , seems very stupid and "cruel" but more stupid...

No really, bears and wolves/dogs were fine, but " a burning pig"??? Cmon you can be more creative than that....

And also for 6 pts, they are kinda cheap, as if you unleash 5 of these on a cavalry then it has to dramatic effect, also they would get wounded only on 4+ when burning... which seem slightly "tooo good to be true" odds... death on 3+ or 2+ would be more appropriate. Do you even know how fast a creature dies when it is caught in flames, or how fast flames "eat" trhow skin, hair and muscles...

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

I love this idea! I would just make a few minor changes. First, I would rename the "slaver" as a "handler" or something, since the animals aren't really slaves, per se. Second, I would increase the range of his animal control to 8", because as was pointed out the handler can be quite expensive. Increased range also allows you to take better advantage of the animals' high speed, which is otherwise kind of a waste if they have to remain clustered together with the handler. For the handler upgrade option, I would make it available to any man, Orc, Uruk-hai, or hobbit (although perhaps bar hobbits from taking bears). I don't really see dwarves or elves using hunting dogs or war bears, and goblins get wild wargs, bats, spiders, etc. already.

Last little thing - I would change frenzied so that the animal just charges the nearest model, friend or foe, so that it can't really be used strategically by either player.

Edit: on the pigs, I agree that burning pigs is more than a little ridiculous (although pretty silly, so not to say you couldn't use them in for-fun games). However, you could include Some kind of boar or warthog, which seems especially thematic with the Mahud. I'd think normal movement, but maybe strength 4?

Well, that's my 0.02, nice idea!

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

These sound quite good, I like the idea of a handler for the animals.

I could be mistaken but I think that incendiary pigs were actually used in warfare, possibly by the Romans even if they do sound quite crazy. You could change them to moving 6" and suffering a S3 hit, then every turn after the first the movement decreases by 1", aimed in a random direction and you plus 1 to the wound roll. This would give them a finite lifespan once ignited.

They could also be a non-combat animal, only dangerous when on fire and if engaged in base to base contact with an enemy model during the fight phase removed as a casualty. Once ignited this could remain however the model takes a S3 hit for being in contact.

I think they could be very fun, though quite complicated.

Maggot's dogs do actually move 8" so I think that is fine. Yeah, the bear also needs to be upped in points or downed in wounds, and the move should be 8" as well.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Lol!

Anyway, I like the buring pigs but i think they do need a finite lifespan, so as Daduffer suggested, adding +1 to the 'to wound' roll each turn means they can only last 4 turns, which is still pretty long for a pig which is on fire...but seems ok in gaming terms.

I'm guessing that all of these animals are designed to be used in conjunction with the Slaver, becuase, without one they would be useless, I mean, 30 points for something with a 50% chance of fleeing the board every turn!?




I see where you are coming from with the comparison to the Half Troll, but the special rules should bring the cost down becuase, as i mentioned earlier, if someone just kills the Slavers your entire army is down the drain. That was why I suggested 25 points for the Bear; the other profiles seems fine though.

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Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

I agree that the pig is a bit silly. Otherwise I think these would really fit in battle companies. I am already writing my own battle companies rules and I think I will add something like this into it. Bears will fit some guys but no all, and other things could be gorillas or some cat animals (cheetahs, lions, tigers, etc.) for Haradrim and Mahud.

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This isn't really suitable for LotR, but during WW2 the Russians trained dogs, with explosives strapped to them, to search for food under enemy tanks.

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"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

yes the same dogs also blew up there own russian tanks cus they were the ones they recognised as having food under them

on the subject matter i personaly think it doesnt really fit well in lotr well itd be good forces only and ud probly have the trained dogs is a nice idea with there handlers however the bears i dont really like too much if ure lookin at the film then Wargs are pritty sizable for bears really and there created by evil thought to b the descendants of the werewolfs so im guessing a natural bear would b about comparable in strenth and speed to a warg im only going on size comparison using the film wich for the most part much of the games are based on

nice idea though i like the idea of the handler but it should b something more along the lines of buying the handler and him being able to purchase a number of beast to acompany him wich i dont think any of them really should be more than 10pts each mayb 15 animals like dogs and bears do suit tho

I could definitely see orcs and evil men using hunting dogs as well as some of the good forces. In fact, the bear seems like one that would be more likely to fight with evil men than good (not because of any inherent allegiance on the bear's part, but rather just thematically).

It does occur to me, though, that picking by race may not make the most sense. Saying that any human warrior can upgrade to an animal handler means that you could have a guard of the fountain court with a bear, for instance. Instead, I would come up with a relatively short list of warrior types that can purchase the upgrade.

My suggested list would be something like:

Warhound:
Ranger of Gondor/Ithilien/Arnor
Clansman of Lamedon
Warrior of Rohan
Mordor/Isengard orc
orc tracker
uruk-hai scout
wild men
Dunlending
Khandish warrior
Mahud warrior
hobbit militia/bowman

Bear:
orc tracker
wild men
Khandish warrior
Warrior of Rohan

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

I have enjoyed this post very much. I would like to add my two cents on the idea of flaming pigs.They were historical used by Celts, Romans and Greeks to disrupt formations of War elephants. I would suggest a random direction, a random duration a very low strength attack, a chance to set building a fire and a hit or miss psychological effect on animals. Elephants apparently did not like the squeals the pigs made. I am sure the handlers did not like the idea of stampeding elephants.



You are not alone. Burning Pigs seem inane. I refer to page 298 The Word's Worst weapons by Martin J. Doughery.

"It should have been obvious that burning pigs were closer to friendly troops than the enemy and far more likely to effect them."

Of course it never entered Mr. Doughery's mind that a few flaming pigs close about would be much more desirable than having STAMPEDING ELEPHANTS!!! close about. That kind of reasoning lead to Mr. D to include Tiger Tanks and The AK 47's in his inane little book. Dog Bombs are one page 303 by the way.
Top Ten rating for Flaming pigs no probably not. However,

Fear factor- good
innovation -good
low cost- very good
over all effectiveness- good guess
service life-entire length of service of elephants- outstanding.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Also note that you can't throw 1 in a courage test.
It has to be 2.

like the burning pigs,
also do the dogs count as infantry or cavalry, this might be a stupid question but oh well

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kill, kill