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How many archers for 500pts?
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13802		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Angrok [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  How many archers for 500pts?
Well as the title states I am curious what is regarded as the recommended number of archers in a 500 point game? I realize this number is affected by the army being played, the type of scenario ect… so here is the specific situation I am concerned about:

I am going to be using a friend’s 500 pt Black Gate list in some upcoming pitched battle games. The list right now has 6 Orc Trackers but almost everything else in the list has a defense of 6 and the model count is 44. I could squeeze in 3 more trackers but I would have to drop the Mouth of Sauron’s armored horse to make room. I’d rather not do this (since he looks so awesome on it and I would like him to be mobile) so is 6 Orc Trackers enough for some bare minimum shooting or should I have more?

Thanks in advance!
Author:  Flame-Of-The-West [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
It depends on how many models you have. 6 Archers with a 44 model count isnt that much. You could stick in twice as that and would still be in the 33% rule. But its your choice. :roll:
Author:  joris267 [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would get 3 more bows but not instead of the mos's horse but instead of normal troops
Author:  Azure Rathalos [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Only bother with more archers if you're against mounted troops.

Or like me, take more any way and move them forward slowly before running them head long into the enemy, you would be surprised how much damage they can do (works well for my dunland army) and not many people see it coming!

Keep the horse though.
Author:  Angrok [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the responses and I will definitely keep the horse now.

I could drop the shields from the 15 Morannon Orcs armed with spears but that would lower their defense from a 6 to a 5 (which is a pretty big difference). I am not sure that is worth three more trackers.

This is becoming more of an army critique now (sorry for that). If I were to follow your strategy Azure then I might be better off with normal Orc Archers for their defense rather than the Trackers. Of course the army would then be a Bara-dur force.

Anyway, based on the responses it sounds like players try to get somewhat close to their 33% bow limitation when building their force (perhaps at least 20% armed with bows). Is this really the case in the “average” army?
Author:  joris267 [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
yep. I would drop two morannon orcs and get three more trackers.
Author:  Azure Rathalos [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, this may upset my grey company army but archery wont make much differance unless your targets are def 4 or horses, thats why I send my archers into combat (started as a joke and became a good tactic).

However, if you want a theamed army, stick to it, they make for very rewarding games, also if trakers are better shots or have more range (Ihavent seen their rules) they'll do better than normal orcs (look better too)

As for those spears, take them, a spearman behind you will help a hell of a lot more than a bloke with a shield waiting for you to die so he can get stuck in, lol.
Author:  joris267 [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
archery inevective :shock:
you should fight my elf army some day, if you then still say archery is useless you win :twisted:
Author:  Azure Rathalos [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't know where the elves hide their beards, lol, but if I can beat Uruks with an out numbered force of dunland I'm happy fighting anyone, although I don't like strength 3 bows, lol!
Author:  Angrok [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
joris267 wrote:
you should fight my elf army some day, if you then still say archery is useless you win :twisted:


I have no doubt that elf archers are tops and that an elf army will almost always want to max out its bows. However, we are talking about Orcs here. :(

I suppose it is easy enough to drop two Morannon Orcs with shields for three more Trackers. Regardless, I can try out the force with only six Trackers and see how it goes. Archery has not proven too effective in the games I have done so far with goblins (and I almost always had 33% of the force with bows too) but that is goblins after all. :roll:

To answer your question Azure, Trackers are more accurate than normal Orc archers but their range is the same and they have absolutely no armor. :o

Anyway, any comments on the percentage of bows the “average” army fields?
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Angrok wrote:
I could drop the shields from the 15 Morannon Orcs armed with spears but that would lower their defense from a 6 to a 5 (which is a pretty big difference). I am not sure that is worth three more trackers.


Since most of your opponents are Strength 3, that's true. Better to drop 2 models than the shields from 15. If you were facing Uruks or other Morannons or other Strength 4 troops, it wouldn't make a difference.

Quote:
I might be better off with normal Orc Archers for their defense rather than the Trackers. Of course the army would then be a Bara-dur force.


Normal Orc archers can't hit a barn. Trackers are worth it.

Quote:
Anyway, based on the responses it sounds like players try to get somewhat close to their 33% bow limitation when building their force (perhaps at least 20% armed with bows). Is this really the case in the “average” army?


Probably. Unless you have fast and/or highly armoured troops, having more bows is a way to mitigate some of the damage you're likely to take as you charge towards the enemy. You can get away without bows if you can engage the enemy quickly, like taking an Orc drummer.
Author:  Azure Rathalos [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maby you should play a couple of test games to see what suits you, I sway towards a shield wall backed up by spears with archers moving round the flank, although if they just draw fire and maby draw some enemies out of formation then they've done their job.

If test games aren't an option then whafrog is the one I would agree with.

(sorry about the back and forth above)
Author:  Angrok [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Well my troops are not fast but they are heavily armored so, in theory, only Uruk crossbows or Grey Company armies will cause significant damage at range. The drummer is an interesting idea but I am not sure how I will fit one into the force.

Anyway, I have made a new topic in the Army Help forum to show exactly what I have to work with. Thanks again for the help!
Author:  Theonekoolness [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many archers for 500pts?
Angrok wrote:
Well as the title states I am curious what is regarded as the recommended number of archers in a 500 point game? I realize this number is affected by the army being played, the type of scenario ect… so here is the specific situation I am concerned about:

I am going to be using a friend’s 500 pt Black Gate list in some upcoming pitched battle games. The list right now has 6 Orc Trackers but almost everything else in the list has a defense of 6 and the model count is 44. I could squeeze in 3 more trackers but I would have to drop the Mouth of Sauron’s armored horse to make room. I’d rather not do this (since he looks so awesome on it and I would like him to be mobile) so is 6 Orc Trackers enough for some bare minimum shooting or should I have more?

Thanks in advance!



Take the trackers in, however i'd cut down on the hand to hand stuff anyway! Bows are brill
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