Not I. Those are all way OP.



Why is that ridiculous? They do just fine without them. Not every army has to have the same ingredients.

240 point or less will buy four named Uruk Hai heroes with fight 5 strength 5 attacks, which is more Uruk Captains than most people are comfortable going up against, and used well particularly supported by pikes and Saruman related magic can cause devastation.

just give him the fearless rule !BAM!

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Yeah, I think if any character deserves the fearless rule, it would be Lurtz.

Why would they be overpowered? I suggested them as alternative profiles, like the two Shagrat ones. I mentioned that their prices would obviously be hiked up appropriately. They would still be easily kill-able by most Good Heroes. Gimli, Imrahil, Aragorn etc would butcher them, and Erkenbrand-level heroes would have a good chance too. They aren't that powerful, they'd only gain 1 Defence, Attack, Courage, Will and Fate than they currently have. Not a stupendous upgrade. Would just make them more effective against warriors.

Believe me I know the power of the Isengard army lists. Maybe ridiculous was the wrong word. I just personally dislike that their most costly fighting-based hero (e.g not Saruman) is a Dunlending called Thrydan when there are two Uruk based characters who could, and arguably should, be physically better than him. Do you not agree with that whafrog?

The problem is, that profiles became more and more powerful to still attract people to buying new models! The second Shagrat is just ridicously overpowered, he never played a great role, the profile was only designed for WOTR! So Lurtz isn't underpowered, all the rest, especially mordor is overpowered to a level that is just bizarre.I don't think that Lurtz should have three shots per round, some special leadership rule or something would have been good.

I think mordor started to get overpowered the moment they started to make up named Nazguls, thats why all things flopped down to the bizarre point and the game balanced favoured evil more often.. after that came the rest, taskmaster and drummers (although still this can be a good excuse cause they already existed as model or least they should) then came morgul knights.. which I think despite being nice its just another excuse, dol amroth cavalry variation with fear to counter the OP knights of Dol Amroth by then and sicne wasnt enough, kandish firecaller came up as cheap and OP mordor shaman (compared to others) and of course since mordor was so jealous of Isengard armies being mainly made of tough as nails uruk hai they had to came up with barad dur guards, being even more absurd overpowering models, uruks with based fight 5 and a random captain at 6 matching even aragorn, wish named uruks from isengard could least reach fight 6 once in a while.

Isengard is the base themed core of evil army that hardly changed through out all this time, they had suffered minor adjustments adding Isengard trolls and feral uruks, but thats it, things went kinda weird when they had nothing else to do and started to add mahur cause alot of Isen players were complaining about elves being the only race being able to get woodland creature rules, now mahur solves that for a few more points to uruk scouts...

I didnt said I dont like it, its how oddly this game is turning into..
Anyway returning to the post, just give him back defence 6 and making him stand out with fight 6 would be enough to make him stand out in any uruk rank...

Can't say I do, but then, I'm partly conflicted by the books vs the movies. In the books, uruks were just orcs, a bit straighter and more organized and steadfast. Gimli had no problem tangling with them, but he shied away from the Dunlendings, who were too tall for him.

Only Ugluk was mentioned in the books. Lurtz is only shown in the movie, Thrydan is mentioned nowhere as far as I know...so how can you say "arguably" here? There's no evidence for anything at all.

Generally I don't see the point or need for alternate profiles, except for those that are story-based, but there are no stories at all about these guys. I certainly don't see the need for heroes that rival the best Good heroes "just because" there is some perceived imbalance. What's next, F6 goblins?

@Galanur: D6 Lurtz? Fine with me, that's a nice special rule. F6 Lurtz? Unreal! There are only 6 pips to work with, and 6 is reserved for the best of the best. Just because Aragorn struggled for a bit in one scene means nothing. After all, Aragorn had just kicked the booty of many other uruk-hai, maybe he was tired...

That scene works really well if you imagine Aragorn rolled triple 1's, took a couple wounds, then won the next round and killed Lurtz.

It happens from time to time, big heroes have a bad round. Lurtz is fine as is, beef up Lurtz and give him special rules and you'll need to beef up people like Faramir proportionally and sprinkle new special rules onto all sorts of people. Before you know what's happened you get Shagrat the random orc with one scene who has 3 attacks and a shield that makes him better at knocking people down than an Ent.

One of the great things about LotR is that the majority of characters are represented without special rules and on the same scale. If I were going to change anything about the game it would be the generic humans with S5, human troops with F5, special rules that aren't consistently applied (if Shagrat can knock down like cavalry, why can't other S5 characters? Why can't S7 characters?), all that junk.

Back in the old days we had Eomer, one of the mightiest men in Middle Earth. No special rules, 2A, who got by with extra points in M/W/F and extra fight. Grumble grumble.

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Barad Dur captains, just captains not even named ones got fight 6 to stand out from random fight 5 guards... what da hell is this then? a captain being the best of the best?

Black guard captains are fight 5. Same as fighting Uruk captains.

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than why also the guards got fight 5?

normal black guard are fight 4. I think you are getting a tad confused between WotR stats and SBG stats. Therefore your argument is invalid. The only reason lurtz is considered underpowered is because the rest of Isengard is overpowered.

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9th GBHL 2015


Mid Sussex Wargamers

Not sure I'd go that far, it's just that he's not as effective or useful as his peers.

It is a known fact that Isengard is the most broken/ OP faction in SBG.
Vrasku: Shoots as well as legolas with a more powerful weapon and is way cheaper
Mahur: Find me a good hero who can equal his stats at his points value.
Thrydan: Can go 1H and still do double wounds before fate = crazy
Fighting Uruks: Best plastic troops currently available IMO
Crossbows: Who needs a bow when you can have a crossbow?

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12th GBHL 2013.
13th GBHL 2014
9th GBHL 2015


Mid Sussex Wargamers

LOL! Nope!
Mordor: Named Ringwraiths, Khardush, Morgul Knights, Black guard,...

Crossbows aren't that effective...you can't really move with those, elven archery aswell as all the human longbows are superior!
In general elves>Isengard! You don't need to get into melee to be effective!

But I agree on Vrashku and Thyrdan! Mauhur was designed for WOTR and therefore has silly stats. In fact all the later GW profiles are OP! Why there had to be a new Eomer, Faramir, Shagrat, Suladan etc? It's jsut to attract people, especially younger fellows into the game with extremely powerful minis that take no skill to use.

Isengard is one of my favourites because it's not that OP! But everyone has his opinion

The more I think about it Whafrog, the more I agree with you. The earlier profiles I suggested weren't very sensible, I hereby recall my crazy suggestions!

All that I'd really like to see is Lurtz and Ugluk to be able to get Defence 6. I think both should have the same amount of attacks as Mauhur (whether that means increasing theirs to 3 or decreasing his to 2 I wouldn't mind, though it's more sensible to see the decrease as realistic).

In terms of Special Rules for Lurtz, what about a rule similar to Bifur's? That is if he is reduced to one wound with no Fate remaining he can expend a free Might point a turn? Would represent his determination to kill Aragorn despite the fact he had lost an arm and had a sword embedded in his stomach!

When Thrydan was being developed the rules used the armies of Middle Earth supplement, and the Dunland list (much of which has never made it into production!) was pretty week. Without Thrydan who is a medium level hero (who in my opinion really needs to team up with Saruman to be effective) the list would be really quite pathetic.

D6 seems okay for Lurtz, he does have a shield and a special rule would make sense. Not sure about Ugluk, they are scouts after all, with light armour.

Mauhur does have 1 less Might than the others. The general guideline seems to be each heroic trait is worth 5 points, and +1A is worth 10, but there is also the context of his army: he leads scouts, they have no spears, so having a leader like him brings a bit more to the table for the army itself. When his profile was created, the Legion and Scouts were separate lists, and you kind of had to choose one or the other to get the most out of each. Scouts were not much used, to say the least. Now that the lists are combined, and he can easily be backed up by pikes, his +1A could be seen as overkill. Still, he's more likely to stick with his faster troops, and they need him to be able to go it alone so that, lacking spear support, they can double-team someone else.



Seems reasonable to me.

Seems reasonable to me.[/quote]

Its a good idea but has already been done with Biffur, and I all the other named Uruk Hai have their own unique rules,which also makes Biffur stand out as a nutter with an axe head stuck in his skull!