The One Ring :: View topic - Dwimmerlaik Question

Don't use logical fallacies, I never said Sap Fortitude can work against itself.
It says "a" not "each" yes, it still says each time the hero spends a point of M/W/F not each time they carry out an action using M/W/F. It is per point of Will used not per attempt to resist. The wording is clearly, in my opinion, focused on the use of the store not the action, otherwise it would say "Whenever a Hero spends at least one point of Might, Will or Fate" or "Whenever a Hero carries out an action using Might, Will or Fate". It is pretty unambiguous to me. "Whenever an enemy Hero spends a point of Might, Will or Fate within 12"/28cm of the Dwimmerlaik" to me clearly says that it is per point of M, W or F.

Author:	Ring_of_Gyges [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:16 am ]
Post subject:	Dwimmerlaik Question
Suppose the Dwimmerlaik targets a hero within range with a spell and the hero decides to spend two points of Will to resist. Dwimmerlaik's Sap Fortitude wrote: Whenever an enemy Hero spends a point of Might, Will or Fate within 12"/28cm of the Dwimmerlaik, roll a D6. On a 4 or more, an extra point (of the same type) must be spent, or the deed is cancelled and does not take effect, and Might, Will or Fate already committed to it is lost. Do you roll for Sap Fortitude once or twice? I've tried to phrase the above as neutrally as possible, opinions varied in a recent game and I'm curious what people's intuitive read is before I offer my take.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
Twice. You roll once for every point of Might, Will or Fate expended. Although if it was me rolling it would be a 1 and a 3 anyway.

Author:	infinateremains [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
Okay here's a side note to that. If the model has 3 will and commits 2 to resist and rolls twice and fails both, thus having to commit 4 will would he; A) resist with 1 will that he has before a second failure, or B) Fail to resist completely? as "the deed is cancelled and does not take effect"? Another Question, would master of battle be able to be used on a heroic action stopped by double might usage? There is no mention that the heroic action has to be successfully called.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
If the model commits 2 will at the same time and fails both, he must use 4. If he doesn't have 4 then the action is cancelled. If the Heroic action is cancelled then Master of Battle cannot be used because the action is cancelled. You cannot copy something that did not happen.

Author:	Ring_of_Gyges [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
I disagree, spending Will isn't like spending Fate. You don't spend 1 Will, resolve that, then spend another. Resisting a spell is a single decision, you declare how much Will you're committing and resolve the whole thing in one step.

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Dwimmerlaik Question https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=32946	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Ring_of_Gyges [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: The rule says that you roll for each point of Might, Will or Fate expended If it did say that then the question would be much easier. It doesn't say that though, you're adding the word "each". The actual text is quoted above. If it triggered once for each point spent rather than per action do you think the extra point Sap Fortitude requires triggers another application of Sap Fortitude? Could one potentially spend an unlimited amount on a single heroic action?

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
Don't use logical fallacies, I never said Sap Fortitude can work against itself. It says "a" not "each" yes, it still says each time the hero spends a point of M/W/F not each time they carry out an action using M/W/F. It is per point of Will used not per attempt to resist. The wording is clearly, in my opinion, focused on the use of the store not the action, otherwise it would say "Whenever a Hero spends at least one point of Might, Will or Fate" or "Whenever a Hero carries out an action using Might, Will or Fate". It is pretty unambiguous to me. "Whenever an enemy Hero spends a point of Might, Will or Fate within 12"/28cm of the Dwimmerlaik" to me clearly says that it is per point of M, W or F.

Author:	Men are weak [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwimmerlaik Question
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Don't use logical fallacies, I never said Sap Fortitude can work against itself. It says "a" not "each" yes, it still says each time the hero spends a point of M/W/F not each time they carry out an action using M/W/F. It is per point of Will used not per attempt to resist. The wording is clearly, in my opinion, focused on the use of the store not the action, otherwise it would say "Whenever a Hero spends at least one point of Might, Will or Fate" or "Whenever a Hero carries out an action using Might, Will or Fate". It is pretty unambiguous to me. "Whenever an enemy Hero spends a point of Might, Will or Fate within 12"/28cm of the Dwimmerlaik" to me clearly says that it is per point of M, W or F. I agree that this may be the intent, but I disagree with the opinion that it's an obvious conclusion. I think it's very possibly intended to only require 1 additional point spent, regardless of the number of points initially spent by the hero. I think that this is an FAQ candidate. The wording should be changed to read either: 1. Whenever an enemy Hero spends one or more points of Might, Will, Fate to perform a heroic action within 12" of the Dwimmerlaik.... OR 2. For each point of Might, Will or Fate spent by an enemy Hero within 12" of the Dwimmerlaik.....

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